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Inside the mind of a high sec industrialist.
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Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-02-21 18:18:29 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:

3) NEVER undock during war, EVER!


Historically this was the original tactic of Cornelius Scipio in dealing with a rampaging Hannibal.

Every time Rome had fought Hannibal until that point in time, Hannibal had won decisively.
So he denied Hannibal victories by staying firmly behind Romes walls.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#22 - 2013-02-21 18:18:39 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
OP is a risk averse player. not a high sec industrialist.

take the OP with a mountain of salt, (and stay hydrated or bad things will happen)

Not risk adverse, stress adverse. He is avoiding the stress of a confrontational interaction with another person. Like most industrialists, I'm guessing he has billions at risk 24/7 in the form of inventory and market orders.

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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-02-21 18:21:52 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
"Ship-to-ship PVP" is an escape valve for market PVP if someone is making things worse for you.


Fortunately, there are plenty of people that really enjoy ship-to-ship PVP. Perhaps the efforts to get more PVP, would be better spent improving the ship-to-ship PVP experience for those that enjoy it, rather than wasting time thinking of ways to fail to force those that do not enjoy ship-to-ship PVP to participate.

EI Digin wrote:
When you see this escape valve removed via grey-area exploits


Grey-area exploits? Not undocking during war is not an exploit. Changing corps to avoid a war dec is not an exploit. Posting on a forum alt is not an exploit.



EI Digin wrote:

you see shockingly low prices for things like ice and ships being sold below cost on markets, which has a knock on effect of making gathering said resources a waste of time for the average player, even in places where it's more dangerous.


This must be why mining still pays as much or more than missioning, despite the buff to exhumer tank.


EI Digin wrote:

You don't live in a bubble when you play this game, every action you take has a ripple effect on the rest of the game. Your actions have consequences, you can't raise your arms in the air and say it's not fair because your preferred form of PVP doesn't hurt anyone. It does, and there's effectively nothing anyone can do about it.


I've never said that my actions to not have consequences. You want to drive me out of an area, make sure there is nothing to mine, that there are no moons for my POS, that there is no profit to be made in the market, etc.

Meanwhile, I'll be doing the same to you.

The fact that my actions have consequences, is what I like about EVE.

But, if you remove the mechanism that I use to largely avoid ship-to-ship PVP, then I will simply stop playing this game. This is why CCP created those mechanisms and is not going to make significant changes to the high sec/NPC corp, CONCORD, etc, game mechanics, REGARDLESS of how loudly PVPers, even those on the CSM, rant for changes.
Kate stark
#24 - 2013-02-21 18:23:10 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
OP is a risk averse player. not a high sec industrialist.

take the OP with a mountain of salt, (and stay hydrated or bad things will happen)

Not risk adverse, stress adverse. He is avoiding the stress of a confrontational interaction with another person. Like most industrialists, I'm guessing he has billions at risk 24/7 in the form of inventory and market orders.


no, i've seen other posts of his over recent days. he's massively risk averse. even if there's guaranteed profit he'll still not make said profit if there's a chance of losing anything to obtain said profit.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#25 - 2013-02-21 18:24:16 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
OP is a risk averse player. not a high sec industrialist.


Learn from at least one quote from the OP:


Conviction behind self-serving statements does not make them true!

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Whitehound
#26 - 2013-02-21 18:25:05 UTC
I read the OP and this is my response.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#27 - 2013-02-21 18:26:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Tippia wrote:


Also, what thread was it that got locked?




"Incursion, What and Why" from yesterday. I ain't linking it, just in case........


EDIT: As clarified below, this is wrong. Sorry.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-02-21 18:26:40 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
OP is a risk averse player. not a high sec industrialist.

take the OP with a mountain of salt, (and stay hydrated or bad things will happen)

Not risk adverse, stress adverse. He is avoiding the stress of a confrontational interaction with another person. Like most industrialists, I'm guessing he has billions at risk 24/7 in the form of inventory and market orders.



Actually, I largely got bored with market manips and such.

I log in a few hours a day, mine about 1 billion ISK a week worth of minerals, then just dump them into the market at whatever the market price is.

I go through periods where I get more into the game than that... running market manipulations, building lots of stuff with my massive BPO collection, helping out a friend that is trying to achieve something specific, etc.

For the last month or so, I've basically only been inventing/building my own crystals and stuff for friends that want it at cost instead of paying market mark-up.


BUT, despite this more casual style I've been playing lately, CCP is still getting paid, by someone, for my 4 accounts.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-02-21 18:27:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I'm a high sec industrialist BECAUSE I have no interest in PVP.
…so you're not actually an industrialist then, since that is all about PvP.


Then everyone in Eve is a pvper, and this thread can quietly die.
Sixx Spades
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-02-21 18:28:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sixx Spades
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Guuuuuuys, stop shooting my pretty shiiiiiiiiiiiiips. Seriously, staaaaaaaaaaaawp. I'll quit, you knooooooooow.

Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#31 - 2013-02-21 18:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I did my best to add ship-to-ship in front of every mention of PVP, but I hit the post length limitation, so had to remove it from many of the mentions of PVP.
Doesn't particularly matter. Ship-to-ship PvP is just as crucial to industrialists as the forms they normally engage in.

Quote:
They can suicide gank me on very rare occasion, but I wouldn't consider that ship-to-ship PVP and if that starts happening too often I'll just quit playing the game.
It's PvP. It's ship-to-ship. So it would be rather strange not to consider it as such, wouldn't it?

Takseen wrote:
Then everyone in Eve is a pvper, and this thread can quietly die.
Indeed. That's why it causes so many problems when they're convinced that they're not, or that they should be removed from it.
Sixx Spades
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-02-21 18:28:31 UTC
Seriously, consider your options.

Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-02-21 18:29:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
No PVP no market. As an industrialist I want there to be more pvp.


As an industrialist you don't care who is doing the shooting as long as people are shooting each other and needing replacements.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2013-02-21 18:31:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Also, what thread was it that got locked?



Sorry, intended to answer this in an earlier response, but got side tracked by other thoughts.

The post was "Creating a corp is not a god given right".

In the OP, the creator rants about a wide variety of things. One nugget I felt like responding to was his assertion that every new player is told to avoid conflict at all costs, and that has created the carebears. This has simply not been my experience.


I think people come to the game with pre-existing play styles, and they congregate into either PVP or non-PVP corps that fit those pre-existing play styles.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-02-21 18:31:18 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Tippia wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I'm a high sec industrialist BECAUSE I have no interest in PVP.
…so you're not actually an industrialist then, since that is all about PvP.


Then everyone in Eve is a pvper, and this thread can quietly die.


The joys of semantics ...

Most of the activities within EvE are of a competative nature:-
You compete with other players for resources.
You compete with other players for market profitability.

Competition is not neccessarily PvP.
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#36 - 2013-02-21 18:33:29 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Competition is not neccessarily PvP.


In EVE, competition is PVP.

PVP is not necessarily pewpewpew
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#37 - 2013-02-21 18:34:30 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Competition is not neccessarily PvP.
The environment isn't putting up much competition, now is it?
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-02-21 18:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: LHA Tarawa
Sixx Spades wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Guuuuuuys, stop shooting my pretty shiiiiiiiiiiiiips. Seriously, staaaaaaaaaaaawp. I'll quit, you knooooooooow.



Sorry, but that is not at all what I wrote. I've not had a ship destroyed in more than two years.

The real TLDR is "Stop wasting your time making posts on the forum promoting ideas that will force me to engage in ship-to-ship PVP".


I really enjoy playing EVE the way it is now, and I do not want to see it changed in ways that will result in me quitting.

You can't force me to be less ship-to-ship risk averse. You can't make me be an easy target. You can't force me to leave high sec. You can't force me to fight back.

You can't make me play this game in a way you want me to play it. I will be allowed to play it the way I enjoy playing it, or I'll quit playing it.
Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#39 - 2013-02-21 18:39:01 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
And frankly, anyone else is better than a non-content creating, pvp-abstaining, highsec carebear.


Why?

LHA Tarawa wrote:
TLDR: I don't ship-to-ship PVP, and you can't make me.


I'm sensing a distinct "Neener-needer-boo-boo" tone. :P

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-02-21 18:39:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Spetznak Sokarad
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
So, basically, you're reopening a LOCKED THREAD because, why? you're bored? Trolling for more fighting?


The thread was locked, not because of the sub-conversation it spawned, but because the OP was a rant.

This thread is not a rant, but rather an attempt to explain to others why I play the way I do.

Perhaps it should have started with a:
TLDR: I don't ship-to-ship PVP, and you can't make me.


"an attempt to explain to others why i play the way i do"

you really needed to make a thread about this?

umm... nobody cares about the way you play...get over yourself. your existance in the eve universe is insignificant.

you keep threatening that if you get ganked you will just quit the game --- FFS, you sound like a 2 year old... GROW UP

i dont like pvp...blah blah blah

just save it man. NOBODY CARES