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Inside the mind of a high sec industrialist.
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Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#181 - 2013-02-22 16:29:12 UTC
March rabbit wrote:


These dangers are created by people like you. People who love to kill at all cost. Preferably - poorly prepared victim in pimped carebearmobile.



Have you seen some of those pimped carebearmobile kills though? Might make you want to change your playstyle when you learn all it required was a two-week old alt.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#182 - 2013-02-22 17:41:52 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
These dangers are created by people like you. People who love to kill at all cost. Preferably - poorly prepared victim in pimped carebearmobile. YOU create these dangers and YOU whine about people who warns others.

Question: why are there poorly-prepared victims in space in expensive ships 24 hours after receiving a war notification?

Because the people they look to for counsel in their own corp don't give it to them. They've had ample warning that we're coming.

Yep, I'd tell them to spread over the region, all fit with a cloak and sit there afk all day in a safespot.

Then I'll go on voice after a day and read out all the hate mail I'd get from the gankbears.


That's pretty much what I'd do.

If you get hate mail for doing that, your aggressors need to learn a few lessons from you.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#183 - 2013-02-22 19:05:19 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Can your fleet of alpha nados pop jita 4-4? There are ample traders there who never leave station and make isk off of trading alone. Heck, one cold use alts at certain stations, courier services like red frog, and you will never be able to engage such people in ship to ship combat. You may gank their courier, but they will never be in a ship for you to pop. It's part of the wide tapestry we call the eve sandbox. How hard is that to grasp?


You could wardec every freighter corp that comes and leaves Jita and screw over the traders that live there by destroying their supply. Or you can go after (or protect) specific people who produce items or competitors for items to adjust market prices to run them out of business, or to make a cool profit.

That type of emergent and 100% legitimate gameplay can't happen if you let everyone hide in an NPC corp or recyclable 1 man shell corp. Your actions have consequences, if you're bothering someone by supplying a certain type of item to the market, which is making someone else money there's no reason why you should be protected if their competitors want to stop the supply.
Kate stark
#184 - 2013-02-22 19:07:59 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Can your fleet of alpha nados pop jita 4-4? There are ample traders there who never leave station and make isk off of trading alone. Heck, one cold use alts at certain stations, courier services like red frog, and you will never be able to engage such people in ship to ship combat. You may gank their courier, but they will never be in a ship for you to pop. It's part of the wide tapestry we call the eve sandbox. How hard is that to grasp?


You could wardec every freighter corp that comes and leaves Jita and screw over the traders that live there by destroying their supply. Or you can go after (or protect) specific people who produce items or competitors for items to adjust market prices to run them out of business, or to make a cool profit.

That type of emergent and 100% legitimate gameplay can't happen if you let everyone hide in an NPC corp or recyclable 1 man shell corp. Your actions have consequences, if you're bothering someone by supplying a certain type of item to the market, which is making someone else money there's no reason why you should be protected if their competitors want to stop the supply.


good luck war deccing NPC corps, they'll never get rid of them.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2013-02-22 19:17:49 UTC
Chandaris wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
Competition is not neccessarily PvP.


In EVE, competition is PVP.

PVP is not necessarily pewpewpew



I still can't fathom how people think pvp automatically means combat.

Is it really that hard to type "combat" instead of "pvp"?

Industrialists are one of the most hardcore pvp'ers in the game!

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#186 - 2013-02-22 19:25:06 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
Well, this has turned into the typical 'carebear vs. pvper' argument.

The funny thing is, there's really nothing to this. There shouldn't be any argument. Neither carebearing nor pvp have any intrinsic value over the other. The only value each activity has is given to it by the players.

This is most often seen in the 'I am a PvPer, you suck!' attitude, like being able to jump into a Catalyst and gank a retriever is some kind of accomplishment.

Being good at PvP, whatever its stripe, does not = superior.

It is also seen (less often) by carebears that try to take the moral high ground. "I am a benevolent carebear, you are a scum sucking piece of opportunistic waste and floats in space saying hurr-hurr-hurr and ur mom jokes all day.'

FYI, being an industrialists does not give you any moral high ground.

Each role exists to benefit the other. If PvPers didn't exist, then anything the industrialist makes has no value, as it would have no purpose. If industrialists didn't exist, the PvPers would eventually feed on each other to extinction.

In the OPs post, he does nothing to denigrate PvPers. He doesn't even say that his method of play is superior. He merely lays out what he feels in regards to his desire (or lack thereof) to PvP, and some of the steps he takes to avoid it.

So everyone, don't get so defensive.



Oh I dunno... with all the buddy invites and power of 2s and multiboxing support... you can pvp on 2 fronts against 1 industrialist. 1 being the combat pilot blowing up the ships, second having the secondary pilot who is a miner or manafacturer harvesting and creating those same said ships.

Sounds like more fun to me honestly.... industry is an end to a means. ISK means nothing at the end of the day.

Unless you can't afford to play, then it means hours of grinding rocks or playing at half the game.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Ohishi
Apocalypse Reign
#187 - 2013-02-22 19:57:19 UTC
Spineless wretches. Is this the new buzzword goons are told to use to drive people to your cause? Oh noes sir, please don't call me a spineless wretch I don't know what ever I shall do if I get thrown in with a bunch of spineless wretches.

Honestly, sometimes it is good to get outside of your group. It's the only way you grow as a person.

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#188 - 2013-02-22 20:02:12 UTC
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
im not in the camp that wants to change high sec to make ganking easier. they can leave high sec EXACTLY the way it is right now and i would be perfectly fine with that... im not for any changes that wouldnt allow you to play exactly the way you play now....

but low/null need a rather large buff. low and null should be so much more rewarding than highsec, in that, it will create a situation where high sec is more of a beginners sandbox. someone doing the same thing you are in low/null sec should make 10 times the amount you do in the safety of high sec.

you could still stay in high sec, and be perfectly safe, which would be fine. but the people that want to take risk should reap much higher reward. highsec shouldnt be a place where people can grind in safety and get "in game" rich from doing so.

highsec should NOT be a place where people are perfectly happy to stay there for their whole eve career --- unless, of course, they are into the whole "eating sand" thing.



I agree with the post but it kind of reminds me the word "reward" seems a bit askew...

To put it into an analogy.... people who work in factories don't dream of working in factories, they dream of riding 4 wheelers. But 4 wheelers do not pay the bills.

If people think making money is the only way to enjoy the game and want to stay in highsec, cool, go for it.

I think the biggest difference is "comparing", and that's the problem. Risk vs reward, yes, it is there. Industry better in highsec than in low or null? Yes, yes it is. But not without it's costs.

It's just flat out different. A racer and a factory worker live in 2 seperate worlds, and both have adapted and learned to co exist with each other.

The problem though, is that the OP is justifying being in highsec and only making money to no other end other than to play for free. Which is fine.. but I still don't get WHY the post in the first place.

Anyways... just seemed a good time to interject that all 3 sec space (4 even since w space is very different as well) shouldn't be compared for the same elements. That simply is not true. Each section of space will always have their 1 better and 1 worse than the other.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2013-02-22 20:48:24 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
Anderron Shi wrote:
Yeah but mining is very boring; little risk, little reward.


Correction: Mining is very boring *for you*. And important distinction. I tend to find it rather relaxing.

And if I want to mine with some excitement, I can always mine in low sec. Smile



Out of curiosity... what is fun about mining? Don't say talk to other people because that is done in every element of the game. The actual act of mining; what causes it to be exciting? I understand you say relaxing... but is that because you do other things non Eve related?(not trying to pick a fight but I personally only mined as a means to an end and can't stand it anymore unless I'm waiting for something else to happen).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#190 - 2013-02-22 21:36:08 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
Anderron Shi wrote:
Yeah but mining is very boring; little risk, little reward.


Correction: Mining is very boring *for you*. And important distinction. I tend to find it rather relaxing.

And if I want to mine with some excitement, I can always mine in low sec. Smile



Out of curiosity... what is fun about mining? Don't say talk to other people because that is done in every element of the game. The actual act of mining; what causes it to be exciting? I understand you say relaxing... but is that because you do other things non Eve related?(not trying to pick a fight but I personally only mined as a means to an end and can't stand it anymore unless I'm waiting for something else to happen).


It can be quite soothing on a sunday morning when one has a hangover. Nothing happens very fast. Or requires getting excited.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2013-02-22 21:43:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
Anderron Shi wrote:
Yeah but mining is very boring; little risk, little reward.


Correction: Mining is very boring *for you*. And important distinction. I tend to find it rather relaxing.

And if I want to mine with some excitement, I can always mine in low sec. Smile



Out of curiosity... what is fun about mining? Don't say talk to other people because that is done in every element of the game. The actual act of mining; what causes it to be exciting? I understand you say relaxing... but is that because you do other things non Eve related?(not trying to pick a fight but I personally only mined as a means to an end and can't stand it anymore unless I'm waiting for something else to happen).


It can be quite soothing on a sunday morning when one has a hangover. Nothing happens very fast. Or requires getting excited.



LOL fair enough

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#192 - 2013-02-23 00:17:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
Anderron Shi wrote:
Yeah but mining is very boring; little risk, little reward.


Correction: Mining is very boring *for you*. And important distinction. I tend to find it rather relaxing.

And if I want to mine with some excitement, I can always mine in low sec. Smile



Out of curiosity... what is fun about mining? Don't say talk to other people because that is done in every element of the game. The actual act of mining; what causes it to be exciting? I understand you say relaxing... but is that because you do other things non Eve related?(not trying to pick a fight but I personally only mined as a means to an end and can't stand it anymore unless I'm waiting for something else to happen).


It can be quite soothing on a sunday morning when one has a hangover. Nothing happens very fast. Or requires getting excited.



Many moons ago, my old wh crew went on an insane binge, rolling I can't remember how many wh's, doing umpteen Sleeper sites, shooting a few players, having a grand old time for about 48 hours. Totally fried, we retired to our home wh pocket for a Sunday afternoon, mining happily, no one the slightest interested in putting together a sleeper of PvP fleet.

There is something quite enjoyable just chatting with corp mates to the soothing background of mining lasers after an intense session of wh activity. And of course, the guy watching the entrance to our wh heard the actual wormhole's Gregorian chant.
T'Laar Bok
#193 - 2013-02-23 06:04:42 UTC
Where's the "this is not a rant " part?

I probably would have read that part.

Amphetimines are your friend.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/T'Laar_Bok
Dark Reignz
Four-Q
#194 - 2013-02-23 06:32:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Demolishar wrote:

For every one of your accounts that you subscribe by PLEX, that's a PLEX that didn't go to someone else. And frankly, anyone else is better than a non-content creating, pvp-abstaining, highsec carebear.


lol, You sound like You'd be happier with a purely NPC seeded market. :)

No just with the bears gone. The market will be just fine.


Yes indeed lets do away with the bears. Oh wait 90% of Goons and the CFC would vanish if that was the case. There is just as many bears hiding away in null as there is in high sec bro.

Anyway kudos to the OP for bringing in the pvp/ anti bear populas into your thread expecting to see bear tears but in actual fact shedding a few of their own. :)

Troll Mode - ON
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#195 - 2013-02-23 07:15:57 UTC
Even if this thread gets locked, I like it. Good on you, OP, for upsetting a few of the 'you have to play eve like this or else' types. Really though, you should join an alliance on some alt, and pass it off as your main. Then watch all the people throw wardecs on that alliance, and laugh, as they waste money and time, thinking that they have wardecced you.

Two thumbs up from me.
Umega
Solis Mensa
#196 - 2013-02-23 08:38:48 UTC
Where's the endless dribble about T2 BPOs?

I think I get it.. you said it yourself, LHA. You don't deal with market orders and such anymore.. you mine a 'billion' worth of ore a week and dump it on the market. So T2 BPOs aren't effecting you're current project.. no need to rant about them anymore.

What I do think is.. with the bluefest boredom of null combo'd with leaderships propaganda towards the 'sociology experiment' of null vs high boiling into more frequent ganking upon highsec sectors, veiled under the curtain of 'Risk v Reward'.. you've had mining vessels ganked. Several, maybe? I mean.. if all you do is mine.. why else come on here and complain about combat PvP?

LHA Tarawa wrote:
2) Being prepared to jump into PVP ships, does not protect against many of the tricks these losers use, like logging off in a belt, the using an out of corp alt cloaked up in that belt to watch for war target to show up in the belt. Then, they log in and auto warp to the belt, while their out of corp alt that was sitting there cloaked up bumps the exhumer. Poof, dead.

There are other tricks I've seen used, but I don't want to give out too many ideas. One is sufficient to disprove the assertion.



Uh huh.. I thought so.

You want to know what would be funny, yet noncombative PvP?

If a large roid-bustin mining corp knew who you are (for example, I can create other examples that reach the same point).. and decided to clean out belts in the system you frequent. They end up hurting your isk per hour cause the belts aren't refreshing fast enough to handle the amount of mining in the system/belts you're in. You move.. oh look.. they decided to show up and burn those belts down. What are you going to do, LHA? Miners V Miners..

Are you going to hire mercs, become a hypocrit and unleash combative PvP upon others.. so you can regain a smoother isk ratio? Sounds like an appropriate EVE action tho.. if you unwilling to fight for what you want yourself, or need extra firepower. You'd want some sort of combative PvP that stems from your personal desire for it, yes?

Or are you going to run to the forums, and *****-fit for CCP to make belts respawn faster.. or for people to have their own personal instance mining belts that can't be scanned down? Honestly.. and sadly.. I think this the route you would take, given your history upon the forums.

If you choose the latter.. EVE is not the game for you. It never was, and I pray it never will be.

 Ume-Pro Studios
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2013-02-23 09:13:01 UTC
Karrl Tian wrote:
March rabbit wrote:


These dangers are created by people like you. People who love to kill at all cost. Preferably - poorly prepared victim in pimped carebearmobile.



Have you seen some of those pimped carebearmobile kills though? Might make you want to change your playstyle when you learn all it required was a two-week old alt.

it's always easier to be stupid, lazy and bad.
but i prefer other way Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#198 - 2013-02-23 09:17:00 UTC
Dark Reignz wrote:


Yes indeed lets do away with the bears. Oh wait 90% of Goons and the CFC would vanish if that was the case. There is just as many bears hiding away in null as there is in high sec bro.

Anyway kudos to the OP for bringing in the pvp/ anti bear populas into your thread expecting to see bear tears but in actual fact shedding a few of their own. :)


I would like to see where you got those numbers from and where the tears are.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2013-02-23 09:18:42 UTC
Umega wrote:


Or are you going to run to the forums, and *****-fit for CCP to make belts respawn faster.. or for people to have their own personal instance mining belts that can't be scanned down? Honestly.. and sadly.. I think this the route you would take, given your history upon the forums.

If you choose the latter.. EVE is not the game for you. It never was, and I pray it never will be.


Well you sure demolished his hypothetical response there, good job.
Jules Wynnfield
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#200 - 2013-02-23 12:56:03 UTC
OP. Yes, I agree with everything you say here.

♫ When I think about you, I touch myself ♫ - Divinyls 1991