EVE General Discussion

In another thread, that was correctly locked as a rant, we almost had a chance at an interesting conversation.

Carebears:
You say carebear like it is an insult. I own it. I'm a carebear. I'm a high sec industrialist BECAUSE I have no interest in PVP.

You say that EVE is about ship-to-ship PVP. Maybe that is what it is about to you, but that is NOT what it is about to me. To me, EVE is about harvesting resources, producing goods, driving the market..


Minimizing War Decs:
There is no mechanism that allows me to block getting a war dec against my player run corp, and that is fine. I've never asked CCP to add one. What I can do is attempt to minimize the number of war dec's.

1) Never post on my main, ever.
To help avoid war dec's I NEVER post on my main. I understand why people request that I post on my main, but I have to continue to decline.


2) Small corp and don't aggressively recruit:
All my toons are in a corp with just me, and I am not even trying to add additional players. ANY time you are recruiting, you are going to get war decs. I'm loosely associated with an alliance, working with them to achieve goals, but I'm not a member of the alliance, so not effected by their war decs.

When I did run corps, and was in alliances, our main mechanism for avoiding war dec was to limit our recruiting efforts. We would just do people to people contacts, not using the forum or in game recruiting channels.

3) NEVER undock during war, EVER!
The other primary tool for avoiding war dec was a standing order in our alliance/corp. Simply put, NEVER UNDOCK when subject to a war dec. Be prepared to go a week of war dec without undocking. If a war dec extends to a second week, drop to NPC corp, or switch to a temp player corp until the war ends.

This standing order was clearly communicated before accepting anyone into the corp/alliance. In effect, we were not enforcing this policy onto others, just limiting the people we partnered with, to those that had this policy. The getcha was that if you did lose a ship to a war dec, you were kicked out of corp/alliance.


The reaction from PVPers:
This policy, of course, angers those that look at industrialists like me as potential targets. Not my problem it they are unhappy that I refuse to give them what they want.

The response, from some claiming to be war dec'ers, was, not very shockingly, that I should give them what they want.... a fight. Hmmmm.... ask a rich person how to make the economy better, they will say that we need to lower the taxes on the rich so that they can get richer. Conviction behind self-serving statements does not make them true! Historical research shows that some of the best economic times accompany a VERY steep tax code with lots of deductions, designed to keep money moving instead of allowing it to pool into too few hands. History has shown me, and the vast majority of the high sec carebears I talk to (which is a lot), that if you give a war dec-ing corps a fight, you get more and longer war decs.

Their proposed solution of being prepared to fight back fails on several fronts:
1) I have no interest in PVP. There are ample opportunities to PVP, and I'm not interested in taking advantage of ANY of them. This is why I'm a carebear in the first place.

2) Being prepared to jump into PVP ships, does not protect against many of the tricks these losers use, like logging off in a belt, the using an out of corp alt cloaked up in that belt to watch for war target to show up in the belt. Then, they log in and auto warp to the belt, while their out of corp alt that was sitting there cloaked up bumps the exhumer. Poof, dead.

There are other tricks I've seen used, but I don't want to give out too many ideas. One is sufficient to disprove the assertion.


Changing the way I play:
You can't force me to play EVE in any way other than the way I enjoy playing it.

Seriously, there is NO game mechanic tweak, no rebalance of reward, no other idea from you, that will make me accept being an easy target, that will force me to fight, or that will change the way I play.

You can't force me to play, so you can't force me to play in any other way. If you attempt to change the way I play, I will simply stop playing. AND, despite what some assert, CCP wants me, and those like me, to play. This is why CCP has made the mechanisms that make us carebears safe, and it is why they won't remove those game mechanics.

PVPers need to accept that high sec is FULL of people that think just like me, and CCP will ensure that we keep playing. Therefore, rather than wasting time and effort trying to think of ways to alter the way I play into a way that you want me to play, your time would be better spent figuring out fun and interesting ways of doing ship-to-ship PVP against other players that actually have an interest in ship-to-ship PVP.


Paying with PLEX:
In addition to the base "EVE would be better without you" argument that I'm sure CCP will continue to ignore, there is an argument made that by funding my accounts with PLEX means that CCP isn't making any money off me anyway.

In reality, the opposite is true. Not only is SOMEONE paying for the PLEX that funds my account, resulting in revenue for CCP, the PLEX is actually more expensive than just a base subscription renewal.

I can add a month to my account got $15 or year to my account for $131 ($11 a month).
The normal cost for a PLEX is $20, or 12 PLEX is $210 ($17.5 per).
CCP is currently running a sale, 1 PLEX for $17.5 or 13 PLEX for $200 ($15.4 per).

CCP makes MORE off accounts funded by PLEX than from accounts funded directly by the player.

So, basically, you're reopening a LOCKED THREAD because, why? you're bored? Trolling for more fighting?

For every one of your accounts that you subscribe by PLEX, that's a PLEX that didn't go to someone else. And frankly, anyone else is better than a non-content creating, pvp-abstaining, highsec carebear.

The thread was locked, not because of the sub-conversation it spawned, but because the OP was a rant.

This thread is not a rant, but rather an attempt to explain to others why I play the way I do.

Perhaps it should have started with a:
TLDR: I don't ship-to-ship PVP, and you can't make me.

…so you're not actually an industrialist then, since that is all about PvP.

Also, what thread was it that got locked?

Sure they can.

No PVP no market. As an industrialist I want there to be more pvp.

Who said that PVP only means ship-to-ship PVP? In eve, everything that isn't provided by an NPC is PVP, whether it is ship to ship or wallet to wallet. Even playing the market is PVP, and it usually has higher stakes than ship to ship PVP.

They may call me carebear, I consider myself a rather industrious rabbit.

"Ship-to-ship PVP" is an escape valve for market PVP if someone is making things worse for you.

When you see this escape valve removed via grey-area exploits you see shockingly low prices for things like ice and ships being sold below cost on markets, which has a knock on effect of making gathering said resources a waste of time for the average player, even in places where it's more dangerous.

You don't live in a bubble when you play this game, every action you take has a ripple effect on the rest of the game. Your actions have consequences, you can't raise your arms in the air and say it's not fair because your preferred form of PVP doesn't hurt anyone. It does, and there's effectively nothing anyone can do about it.

I'm not sure why you're even bothering to play the game then. Is it to look at 3d ship models? Do you tell yourself that you're promoting other people's fun by supplying the materials? Are you extremely scared that anything you've build and collected will be wiped out simply because PvP exists?

Yes, you're right that no one can tell you how to play the game. However, when you signed up to play Eve Online, you did agree to participate in a game with a large player base that is hellbent on shooting ships and having a blast doing so. Whether it be consensual or unconsensual PvP, we're here to see that our ships blow up and hopefully take you with us in the process. There's nothing wrong with being a so-called 'Carebear', but the absolute refusal to try and fit a single weapon system and your indignant view of others wanting to blow you up proves to me that you want to play a different game entirely.

People shouldn't be throwing stones when they live in a glass house. You want me to stop trying to convince you to play a game differently than you're used to? Fine. However, stop telling me to play my game differently because it interferes with yours.

You know the risks associated with what you do. You know you're playing an internet spaceship game. You know, hopefully, that if you wanted to play a game that has absolutely no PvP, you could be playing something else.


Oh, is that so.