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CCP employees playing Eve

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-02-20 04:38:55 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
what changed is that in contrast to your previous CEOs The Mittani seems to take EVE pretty seriously which has rubbed off on your alliance as a whole.

the "don't give a ****" pre-Delve goons (lead by grandstanding clowns of questionable integrity and competence) seem a lot more likeable than the "let's write the authoritative manual on modern organization and management techniques applied to EVE" goons that founded the CFC.


Now why would we do that?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-02-20 04:42:23 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
Fozzie do you know of any CCP employeers who live in wormholes? Alot of wormholers feel very under-represented.



The lead game designer I hear!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#63 - 2013-02-20 04:45:38 UTC
Andski wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
what changed is that in contrast to your previous CEOs The Mittani seems to take EVE pretty seriously which has rubbed off on your alliance as a whole.

the "don't give a ****" pre-Delve goons (lead by grandstanding clowns of questionable integrity and competence) seem a lot more likeable than the "let's write the authoritative manual on modern organization and management techniques applied to EVE" goons that founded the CFC.


Now why would we do that?


Dude, where's my Sov?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-02-20 05:07:46 UTC
Andski wrote:
Oxandrolone wrote:
Fozzie do you know of any CCP employeers who live in wormholes? Alot of wormholers feel very under-represented.



The lead game designer I hear!


Its rumored he went into a wormhole and tried to copy BM's from a corp mate and said fek this, and thats where corp BM's came from.

Never been verified, old wives tales at this point.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-02-20 05:10:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quite a few of us play regularly. As noted above there are some aspects of gameplay that we do not engage in as part of a general policy (suicide ganking is one), we always do our best to understand every aspect of EVE.

Why is suicide ganking forbidden? Maybe if CCP employees actually explored it instead of listening to the wail of wretches who would otherwise be wailing about how they need to be at their keyboard twice in one hour for their mackinaw, CCP would be less likely to make unwarranted nerfs to suicide ganking.


As a player, I was suicide ganking before it was cool. :hipster:

But as CCP employees we choose to stay towards the light side. It makes a refreshing change of pace for quite a few of us.


You imply that educating players on safe travel habits, so that they are better able to integrate into less safe zones of Eve, later on, is a 'bad thing'.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#66 - 2013-02-20 06:03:50 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quite a few of us play regularly. As noted above there are some aspects of gameplay that we do not engage in as part of a general policy (suicide ganking is one), we always do our best to understand every aspect of EVE.

Why is suicide ganking forbidden? Maybe if CCP employees actually explored it instead of listening to the wail of wretches who would otherwise be wailing about how they need to be at their keyboard twice in one hour for their mackinaw, CCP would be less likely to make unwarranted nerfs to suicide ganking.


As a player, I was suicide ganking before it was cool. :hipster:

But as CCP employees we choose to stay towards the light side. It makes a refreshing change of pace for quite a few of us.


You imply that educating players on safe travel habits, so that they are better able to integrate into less safe zones of Eve, later on, is a 'bad thing'.


Dafuq? Dude, sometimes I hate people.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-02-20 06:23:51 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
As a player, I was suicide ganking before it was cool. :hipster:

But as CCP employees we choose to stay towards the light side. It makes a refreshing change of pace for quite a few of us.


Policy doesn't really imply choice. I can't think of any reasons why CCP devs are not allowed to engage in scamming or suicide ganking, short of the infinitesimal risk of the player being exposed as a developer, but are those things not a part of the game? Is it not necessary for developers working on things like empire aggression mechanics to have more than a fading familiarity with the parts of the game they are working on?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#68 - 2013-02-20 06:43:32 UTC
Andski makes a damn good point tbh. If devs don't indulge in the odd bit of nefarious activity how do they know the impact of their changes on those activities?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-02-20 06:50:55 UTC
They don't know what impact their empire aggression meddling will have.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-02-20 06:54:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Substance
Wescro wrote:
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
CCP developers do play Eve, and are present in all walks of life in the game.


Are you sure about that? I thought CCP employees were not allowed to suicide gank. Are you thus implying that suicide ganking is not a part of EVE?

sounds like a pretty dobtful restriction to me, although it might explain 5 years of stealth nerfs to hugh sec grief play.

edit: apparently its the case. thats a shame ccp. id like your devs to have a working knowledge of every aspect of eve.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-02-20 07:09:17 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I sincerely hope that every CCP employee involved in developing and implementing EVE is a regular player. The consequences of occasional malfeasance to the game are trivial compared to the consequences of it being looked after by people who are indifferent and ignorant of it.


They should be required to run the newbie tutorials once a week to enforce how bad they are.

bad? you think this is bad?

tutorial back in 2003: shoot a drone, mine 333 units of veldspar, refine, sell it.


DONE.


oh and your wallet had 5000 isk.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-02-20 07:15:28 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I sincerely hope that every CCP employee involved in developing and implementing EVE is a regular player. The consequences of occasional malfeasance to the game are trivial compared to the consequences of it being looked after by people who are indifferent and ignorant of it.


They should be required to run the newbie tutorials once a week to enforce how bad they are.

bad? you think this is bad?

tutorial back in 2003: shoot a drone, mine 333 units of veldspar, refine, sell it.


DONE.


oh and your wallet had 5000 isk.


pfft. my intro to eve, circa 2007:

1. warp to mission site.
2. client crash
3. log back in
4. client autowarps back to mission site
5. goto 2

Welcome to Eve Substance, have some CRASHES.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-02-20 07:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
CCP developers do play Eve, and are present in all walks of life in the game.


Except, according to CCP Fozzie, suicide ganking.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
As a player, I was suicide ganking before it was cool. :hipster:

But as CCP employees we choose to stay towards the light side. It makes a refreshing change of pace for quite a few of us.


If CCP employees were allowed to participate in all aspects of the game anonymously (except for maybe being at the head of a huge alliance) then they would be able to see how much of a sad state the game is in right now. The result of CCP's outright stupid choice to remain on "the light side of things" as they call it has led to silly implementations such as the FW exploit (which they were warned about & did it anyway), the Technetium buff of Dec 2009 (which they were also warned about, but surprise surprise, ignored the playerbase) & the poor implementation of the barge buff.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#74 - 2013-02-20 07:39:31 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:


pfft. my intro to eve, circa 2007:

1. warp to mission site.
2. client crash
3. log back in
4. client autowarps back to mission site
5. goto 2

Welcome to Eve Substance, have some CRASHES.


So bad, even its description uses GOTOs.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Josef Djugashvilis
#75 - 2013-02-20 07:52:51 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
In a game the size of EVE we can never expect to have employees playing all aspects at all times, so we rely on our knowledge and experience of game design in general, the foundational principles of EVE's design in particular, and collecting feedback from players who have such direct gameplay knowledge.

This method applies to many aspects of the game, if we couldn't pull it off with suicide ganking we'd have more serious problems. Smile


May I assume then that whoever was responsible for the changes to drone AI, either used their general knowledge of game design, or did courier missions to test the new AI?

It is still unbalanced.

This is not a signature.
Josef Djugashvilis
#76 - 2013-02-20 08:00:10 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
would you people make up your minds if we're stunningly incompetent or so well organized even our forum posting is coordinated


Even incompetent people can be organised. Being organised does not imply competence.

Here is Phil. He has packed a picnic hamper with sandwiches, milk, plates, cups, a blanket and cutlery. He heads off with his special friend to have a picnic. In the rain. In a swamp. Organised but incompetent.

Here is Don Juan. He has a horse, armour, a lance, supplies and a sidekick. Off he goes to wage war against the giants threatening his country. Except they are windmills, not giants. And the windmills are pumping water or milling grain. Organised but incompetent.

Here are the Thénardiers. They run an inn. Amongst the family they have the nickel-and-dime show down to an art, they have the plfering and pickpocketing sorted out, and they have mastered the secrets of watering down their Makers Mark so they can make 5% more profit while the taste of the drink is unaltered. Organised, but incompetent. They think they're pretty hot stuff though, due to the number of scams they get away with and the way they invite people to their inn only to be pillaged. With the same amount of effort to actually running an inn rather than a scam house, they'd be making more profit and have a better name for themselves.


Phil obviously lives in Manchester, UK and has two choices, picnic in the rain or no picnic.

This is not a signature.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-02-20 10:05:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Aryth wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:

what changed is that in contrast to your previous CEOs The Mittani seems to take EVE pretty seriously which has rubbed off on your alliance as a whole.

the "don't give a ****" pre-Delve goons (lead by grandstanding clowns of questionable integrity and competence) seem a lot more likeable than the "let's write the authoritative manual on modern organization and management techniques applied to EVE" goons that founded the CFC.



While I am sure it would please his ego to no end to hear that people think it was all Mittens, alas it was not.
Great management helps to be sure, but it was far more organic than that. What has happened at this point is you have had years of experience and war and planning and strategy and financial acumen built up into a veteran core.

It isn't any one person or strategy, but a small collective of extremely skilled (at their chosen playstyle) players that comprise the "management' of GSF. Which in turn rolls into CFC. If Mittens were to step down it would continue in much the same way, just like it has through many a CEO. So if it appears SERIOUS BUSINESS, well that is just because many of us are playing at a level most of EVE isn't playing at yet. Not some chestbeating thing, just why it may appear it is all serious business, when in fact we are just as hilarious, only in more shadowy ways the regular EVE player isn't going to see.

Goons didn't really grow up, so much as evolve into that creepy clown you think will molest your children. But still zany!

Maybe the impression that EVE is serious business to you is not so much due to your incredibly high level of play and your complex machinations (that most of your members don't take any conscious part in anyways) ... I think EVE became all serious business when EVE goons stopped being goons.

Goonswarm used to have a special outlook on EVE as you could honestly claim to care less about the game than most other groups playing it.

And why would you care? EVE is just another bad game that got picked up by the SA MMO community and which is only made enjoyable by having some like-minded goons to hang out with. You play it for a few months, then you grow bored (or get banned) and look for a different game that has a local goon clan/guild/corp which you can join. Maybe your actions did hurt the game, maybe the game will be dead in 2 years because the devs are bad or maybe you'll rediscover it when someone puts :effort: into writing a new OP a few months down the road. Who cares? it's not about the game, it's about the community.

Only in EVE goons turned out to be pretty successful and that changed everything as it lead to EVE goons becoming more and more invested into their game and eventually splitting away from the SA MMO community.

Nowadays goonfleet.com is not just a clan forum but is a forum community in its own right. EVE goons are members of goonfleet.com first and foremost and members of SA as a far second or not at all. Even when you play games other than EVE (WoT is a great example) you play them with your goonfleet.com bros rather than with SA goons.

The "problem" is that goonfleet.com is at its core all about EVE. It is very doubtful how much of the goonfleet.com community (that forms your direct peer group) would survive if it decided to leave EVE behind and play other games exclusively. You broke the barrier that separated "the game" and "the community".

At this point you are invested far too heavily into EVE to treat it as anything but serious business, just like all the other EVE alliances out there.


(yes, I realize that this is a different pov than the "all glory to dear leader" theory I advocated in my earlier post. doesn't mean either view has to be invalid.)

.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-02-20 10:09:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I know I've indulged in some tongue-in-cheek "What kind of idiots make this game" banter when I run into bugs we haven't fixed yet.

You know amarr drones have been broken longer than you've been at CCP, right? Quite a bit longer, actually.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#79 - 2013-02-20 10:11:37 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
They're all in GOONSWARM FEDERATION

Yeah now that BoB is gone.
Potrondal Morrison
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-02-20 10:30:06 UTC
Hey Fozzie, do you or any of the CCP employee players offer a ISK doubling service in Jita?