EVE General Discussion

What is true, is that highsec safety is free, there is no work or time or money that a highsec miner has to spend or perform to acquire that level of safety.

On the other hand, nullsec safety, as it exists, is not supplied by game mechanics, but directly via the efforts of players.

A highsec miner can mine for long periods of time with very little interaction with the game. What are the chances that a miner is going to be ganked in highsec in any twelve hour period? Consider the number of miners in highsec during a twelve hour time interval, consider how many ganks occur in that twelve hour time period. The chance that any particular miner is going to be singled out is statistically very low.

The question then becomes, how long can a player mine in a relatively inactive state throughout a given day, versus mining in a state where they need to actively pay attention to the game? A highsec miner can multitask quite effectively. They can mine 8-12 hours per day, while getting many other tasks done: their job, playing another game, watching a movie, making sure their kids don't stab themselves. The nullsec miner can't multitask as effectively, if at all. The time they can spend mining is far more limited.

So, if you can spend 8-12 hours per day, earning 25M ISK per hour in a generally AFK activity in highsec, versus spending 3-4 hours per day, earning 60M ISK per hour in nullsec, what do you choose? Low effort for 250M ISK per day, or greater effort for 210M ISK per day? This is why most nullsec alts are based out of highsec. Low effort, high reward, very low risk.

Not everyone is going to leave highsec. That's cool. But there are certainly people who would leave highsec to perform their industry or their PvEing if the reward was large enough. Yet, the reward for leaving highsec is rarely worth the effort it involves.

So, the be-all, end-all in the ultimate PVP game is.....

blowing up a defenseless mining barge because after hours of mining, the player's attention lapses for a minute?

PAAAAAHHHHHLEASE!


PVPers should look to fight other PVPers and stop looking at industrialist carebears as potential targets. ANY attempt to make the carebears targets will simply result in them quitting the game.


You like to PVP. I like to mine, manufacture, produce.

You go PVP with others that want to PVP, and I'll keep mining, manufacturing, and producing with others that, like me, have no interest in PVP.

If CCP tries to force me to PVP, I'm gone. How does that benefit the PVPer?

You need to learn about the PvP food chain.

Actually, Concord does create safety in highsec. The fear of retribution is a deterrent and therefore less people get shot at. There's also the fact that any potential aggressor has a maximum of 10 seconds to win the combat before he is blapped, while a normal battle in EVE might take several minutes.

I know it's a shocking concept that you just can't gate camp and kill random players.

You have obviously never been to Jita and surrounding systems, where the whole place is one big camp. You can gate camp and kill anyone in highsec, its called a suicide gank.

Once upon a time, before the bad days of an unbalanced hi-sec and null sec anomolies, nullsec dwellers used to use the belts to make their money, ratting and mining. This meant nullsec was packed with nice juicy targets busy making ISK to pay for their PVP ships.

This plethora of targets attracted numerous fast moving gangs who roamed throughout nullsec looking for their 'Daily Raven'. As this activity caused a loss of ISK to the large alliance members, defensive gangs were often created to fight the aggressors, gate camps set up to catch them as they roamed through the alliances territory, jump bridges used to get ahead of a roaming gang, to kill them as they exited an alliances space.

An alliance that didn't defend in this way quickly started losing members as ISK making became too difficult and moral crumbled, this meant that a small PVP corp, living on the edge of an alliances area could have a real impact on the daily life in nullsec, the easy targets of ratting Ravens and miners started the whole PVP food chain, which could escalate up and up until alliances were fighting each other. All aspects of PVP were being created from small gangs up to large alliance fleets.

This was how it happened back in up to 2007. Back then I was losing ratting ships in the belts to roaming gangs from CoW and Tri, and roaming through Geminate and the Vale interrupting Pure and Hydra's ISK gathering activities; some we won some we lost, but it was always entertaining.

No-one back then moved to hi-sec, null was where you earned the big money, afk cloaking was un-heard of, why bother? You could disrupt someones industry by actually playing the game.

Now the targets are gone, some safely away into anomolies, but most back into hi-sec to earn safe isk. No easy targes in the belts, no roaming gangs, no defense fleets, no FCs trying to stay three steps ahead of another gang as a running battle develops across 30 jumps. No fun, just AFK cloakers and big blob sov grinds.

This is the Eve we need to get back to, because nowadays it's easier to go to hi-sec to earn ISK, meaning none of this game play takes place.

If Concord created safety, then people could not explode.

"Don't undock with something you cannot afford to lose" is quite a known EvE principle.

Considering even quite sturdy Jump Freighters get regularly popped, the safety is not *that* enforced.

TL;DR

I want to perform cheap, risk free ganks without the need to adapt.

Buffs to the mining barges, as well as Retribution changes, just means that a lone ant can't kill an elephant without being stomped by the rest of the herd. To use the oft quoted, but rarely followed, advice: HTFU and ~deal with it~