These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Generic Patcher and Multi payload installer

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#41 - 2011-10-13 08:04:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
Don't forget those patch fixes, because nobody pays attentions to beta tester's warnings on testserver if something wrong with new patches. :DDD
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2011-10-13 08:15:30 UTC
Good work. Some people don't get the glory jobs, but the job is critical. So other people can shine

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
OnlyFleets.
#43 - 2011-10-13 08:24:49 UTC
Raid'En wrote:
so the sisi launcher became official for TQ also ? ^^
well for sure it's easier this way :)

Better late than never I suppose.

How to win EVE
Mjana
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2011-10-13 11:09:11 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
we're constantly working on improvements, such as multi language language support for the installer, patcher and Repair Tool,

If you're already working on that, please also fix the following two language-settings-related problems:

1) I have to log in to change the language of the EVE client, yet I am forced to restart it afterwards and log in again.
That just doesn't make any sense. If the language settings is a global setting anyways, why it's not presented in the Esc-menu of the start screen (or already in the new, shiny multilanguage-installer Blink)?

2) Your method for detecting language is wrong (to be fair, there are tons of other programs having the same problem):
My OS language is set to English, just my Date/Number formats, Location and Keyboard are set to German (Swiss).
Clearly, I want my UI to be in English, yet EVE selects German as default language.

For reference, head over to the .NET guys in the Website-department and ask them about the difference between CurrentCulture and CurrentUICulture in the System.Globalization.CultureInfo class.
CurrentUICulture (or the equivalent in python or win api) is what you should be using.
(On my OS, CurrentUICulture is set to en-US and CurrentCulture is set to de-CH)

P.S. If you're already in the web-department, could you smack one of them for me? I just had to rewrite the entire post because clicking Preview just cleared the whole post... Evil
Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
#45 - 2011-10-13 12:57:13 UTC
Quote:
So why is 4 GB so special?

There is a hard limit on how large a single executable can be on Windows; that limit is 4 GB on 32-bit systems. Furthermore, operating systems that run on the FAT-32 file system have a 4 GB file size limit, so no file stored on a FAT-32 system can be larger than 4 GB. Most users do not run on FAT-32 anymore; NTFS is more widely used today. We decided on a solution that caters to everyone, whether they use FAT-32 or NTFS. We split the so-called payload (the compressed file containing the game) into multiple files.

I'm unsure about the bolded part. I think the 4GB on a 32-bit windows is caused by the FAT32. A 32bit WIndows OS with NTFS should have no cap ... unless that of the volume itself, of course Big smile



Other than that: Go Bittorrent, CCP!!!!!
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#46 - 2011-10-13 13:40:26 UTC
Lutz Major wrote:
Quote:
So why is 4 GB so special?

There is a hard limit on how large a single executable can be on Windows; that limit is 4 GB on 32-bit systems. Furthermore, operating systems that run on the FAT-32 file system have a 4 GB file size limit, so no file stored on a FAT-32 system can be larger than 4 GB. Most users do not run on FAT-32 anymore; NTFS is more widely used today. We decided on a solution that caters to everyone, whether they use FAT-32 or NTFS. We split the so-called payload (the compressed file containing the game) into multiple files.

I'm unsure about the bolded part. I think the 4GB on a 32-bit windows is caused by the FAT32. A 32bit WIndows OS with NTFS should have no cap ... unless that of the volume itself, of course Big smile



Other than that: Go Bittorrent, CCP!!!!!

Yes, there was more information here, but I think the editing truncated it for brevity. You are correct, it is a FAT32 limit, which is why I mentioned HFS+, in an earlier post, not having this problem. We still support FAT32 disks, so we have to accommodate their shortcomings for the time being.
Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
#47 - 2011-10-13 13:56:44 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Yes, there was more information here, but I think the editing truncated it for brevity. You are correct, it is a FAT32 limit, which is why I mentioned HFS+, in an earlier post, not having this problem. We still support FAT32 disks, so we have to accommodate their shortcomings for the time being.
Thought that much, because the rest of the blog made actual sense Big smile
I was only unsure, whether my memory had failed me again or not.
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#48 - 2011-10-13 14:06:26 UTC
Hiram Alexander wrote:
Sounds great. I hope it works well, though... I've had many problems with the Sisi patcher recently... :(


Same here, just tried updating again and got the "Applying the patch has failed, do you wish to launch the repair tool [etc]". Problem is, the repair tool repairs it to the TQ files, which doesn't help for sisi :P
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#49 - 2011-10-13 14:18:01 UTC
I'm assuming that clearing your cache is still recommended after patching?
If so, when you are asked to download and install the patch, I would love a checkbox that says something like "Clear cache after patching". Then I won't have to restart my client again just to clear the cache.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
CCP Cascade
#50 - 2011-10-13 15:03:51 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Cascade
Hiram Alexander wrote:
I've had many problems with the Sisi patcher recently... :(


Hi Hiram, please file a bug report with errors and logs attached or if it is more of a usability issue, start a thread on the Test server feedback forum and explain how you would like it to be.

Palovana wrote:
The generic patcher is only for TQ, correct? Test patches still handled by SisiLauncher for Sisi/Dudu?


You are correct!

Sarmatiko wrote:

Also my feedback for installer:user should be able to choose the location for downloaded files (other than default C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE\downloads)


Good suggestion. We will have a look and see if this is something we want to do. We can see two options, one where you can choose where the downloaded data will be stored and the second is that it will just download the data in a temp folder next to the installer executable. So that if you place that on your D drive, it will create a temp folder on your D drive and continue to download there. No promises though. Blink

ArchenTheGreat wrote:
Can you make it to use BitTorrent? It will download much faster for people who are not close to your CDN. BT is perfect tool for patches.


There are a couple of issues with this, because BitTorret traffic is usually subject to trafic shaping by ISPs which means that they limit or disable it as a result. This would mean that if we rely too heavily on it, we would not be able to service all our players. How would you like to see this implemented? What would you like the default options for upload/download to be? There are also plenty of people out there who would not want to spend bandwidth uploading to others, so it would have to be user controlled. What do you think?

Sturmwolke wrote:
Where's your sense of flair and style?


We prefer boring and descriptive names, we do have some fun and stylish names for some of our internal stuff though.

Associate Technical Producer - Core Technology Group
CCP Cascade
#51 - 2011-10-13 15:04:02 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Cascade
Che Biko wrote:

If so, when you are asked to download and install the patch, I would love a checkbox that says something like "Clear cache after patching". Then I won't have to restart my client again just to clear the cache.


Another good suggestion! We will be looking into how we would want to do this, it will either be by user choice or just done automatically every time you patch. Do you have any preference?

Associate Technical Producer - Core Technology Group
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#52 - 2011-10-13 15:14:59 UTC
Quote:
...patching experience better and more convenient for you


Roll

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
CCP Cascade
#53 - 2011-10-13 15:17:09 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Cascade
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Quote:
...patching experience better and more convenient for you


Roll



Quote:
We also very much welcome your ideas for future stuff you would like to see in the feedback thread!

Associate Technical Producer - Core Technology Group
Havak Kouvo
Doomheim
#54 - 2011-10-13 17:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Havak Kouvo
Any hope of having a client where the first thing it does is check for an update and prompts for installation. Instead of loading the game (which can sometimes take a while) then after the game loads it tells you to install the update, which downloads the installer, prompts you to quit the application, then makes you go through the upgrade wizard.

Instead when i click the EVE shortcut, as soon as I see the splash page it prompts me to update. I click update, then wait until the client is updated automatically and loaded. No more wizards, no more multiple prompts, just click, wait, play. Even better, the update prompt has a "install updates automatically in the future" check box so that I can skip the click part all together. Just a window with a progress bar, splash screen, client.
Miraqu
Kneipenterroristen.
#55 - 2011-10-13 17:16:31 UTC
It would be very nice if the patcher would support the setting of some options while installing.

This would be:

Setting the Language
Joining / Leaving Eve-Voice
Audio enabled / disabled
Incarna (CQ) on / off


If you think this could confuse the less savvy users, then please provide the options to call your installer with a config-file.

eg: EVE_Premium_Setup_292761.exe -c myfile.txt -quiet

you could specify a certain syntax and one could save the file and just call the installer without having to answer the same dumb questions everytime.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#56 - 2011-10-13 17:29:21 UTC
any chance you'll make it easier to log into the test server? e.g. no special install, just pick from a list of servers.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Mjana
State War Academy
Caldari State
#57 - 2011-10-13 19:51:01 UTC
Lutz Major wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Yes, there was more information here, but I think the editing truncated it for brevity. You are correct, it is a FAT32 limit, which is why I mentioned HFS+, in an earlier post, not having this problem. We still support FAT32 disks, so we have to accommodate their shortcomings for the time being.
Thought that much, because the rest of the blog made actual sense Big smile
I was only unsure, whether my memory had failed me again or not.

I was going to comment about this too, but then re-read the devblog portion and found an explanation that could make sense:
Quote:
There is a hard limit on how large a single executable can be on Windows; that limit is 4 GB on 32-bit systems.

My guess it that it boils down to the executable max size. WinXP 32bit didn't have any problems working with files >4GB on NTFS partitions, but it could be that executables >4GB are not supported because they run pretty close to the core of the 32bit OS.
Tiruriku
Caymen Investments
#58 - 2011-10-13 19:58:08 UTC
If you're making changes to the patcher I would strongly suggest something to make hotfixes easier to install. After each release there seems to be a hotfix, usually with fairly trivial changes, released every day for a few days.

This is extremely annoying when running multiple clients. I use linkshellextension to have junctioned folders so each of my eve accounts maintains separate settings and stores the last used username. When a normal patch comes out and updates the core game I only need to apply it once but the hotfixes need to be applied for every single account I run.

Not only does it have to be applied to each folder but it downloads it 10x as well.

A few suggestions:
1. Download once, apply to all profiles or at least cache the download
2. When eve is launched check for an update before entering credentials, automatically apply the update, then automatically restart. Just make it automatic and the daily hotfixes won't be so bad.
Alain Kinsella
#59 - 2011-10-14 03:13:13 UTC
Tiruriku wrote:
If you're making changes to the patcher I would strongly suggest something to make hotfixes easier to install. After each release there seems to be a hotfix, usually with fairly trivial changes, released every day for a few days.

This is extremely annoying when running multiple clients. I use linkshellextension to have junctioned folders so each of my eve accounts maintains separate settings and stores the last used username. When a normal patch comes out and updates the core game I only need to apply it once but the hotfixes need to be applied for every single account I run.

Not only does it have to be applied to each folder but it downloads it 10x as well.

A few suggestions:
1. Download once, apply to all profiles or at least cache the download
2. When eve is launched check for an update before entering credentials, automatically apply the update, then automatically restart. Just make it automatic and the daily hotfixes won't be so bad.


I'm in this same situation, and would like to see it fixed as well.

The problem is probably due to where the patch is getting applied. 'Normal' patches are detected by the Patcher, and applied as already discussed here. Hotfixes are detected by the actual client (eve.exe) and applied from there - apparently using the old logic.

A *real* fix would be to just have the Patcher somehow do this before launching the actual client. An interim fix would be one of your suggestions above, but requires intervention of another Dev team (not the ones working on the Patcher exe).

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).
Afandi
Otbor Chereshka
#60 - 2011-10-14 07:51:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Afandi
Crasniya wrote:
Xyfu wrote:
DOES IT STILL ******* DOWNLOAD TO C:\, COMPLETELY IGNORING DISK SPACE REQUIREMENTS AND LOGIC?

**** that aspect of every single patcher/installer so far. My C:\ drive is 11GiB in size, and has 200MiB free. My \temp is on X. My %appdata% is on D:\.

On that note, why can't I move the ******* cache? I can only log in on one account at a time due to disk space requirements on C:\. Pain in the ****.


... The only possible explanation I have for this, is that you, or whoever set up your machine, partitioned your hard drive like an idiot. No C:\ drive where Windows XP or newer is installed should be less than 20 GB. When Windows XP came out, 20 GB hard drives weren't even available, so really you should have a C:\ drive of 60 GB or more. My C:\ drive is 2 TB, but that's how I roll.

Unfortunately, CCP can't save you from yourself.



You, sir, are a complete [insult, concerning mental abilities].

Just because you have large system partition, doesn't mean that everybody has to have one. Everybody is free to make his hard drive mapping to his liking. Also, the point is that the user should have options to change the settings and not be restrained in the "You-are-a-stupid-user" way.

CCP dev team, you are going to make many people happy, by adding the following:
1. Ability to change the default download directory.
2. Ability to change the default cache/logs/etc directory, which is now defaulting to "Documents and Settings/[User name]/...". I, for one, really don't like having a cache growing wildly on my system partition.
3. Delete the cache directory after cleaning, not just backup it. That is a BAD design. The command is 'clear cache', not 'backup cache'.