Missions & Complexes

This seems like as good a thread as any.

Why are incursions runners acting like grade schoolers on the playground?

You can say a lot about the leadership people of different channels, but being dumb is defiantly not among the matching attributes and the reason why every Inc grief crew disbands very quick is because it is a **** ton of work without any kind of real payout, while the big channels don't lose man power over it. So would it be possible that they are actually do it for the money? More money by closing Incs? This sounds like a mixed message at first, but it is surprisingly easy to break it down to one single problem that massively affects all of the big shield channels that run HQ sites:

To many channels and people want to run HQ sites(one HQ system per Inc only). This creates a lot of contest and can quickly lead to 40 people doing nothing but warping around or losing contests.

For VGs this problem can be solved by changing system(since there are normally 3 VG systems), brute force(running a 13+1 contest setups) or by the problem that a gang that is optimal for NCOs sucks at NMCs and OTAs and the other way around(if you want people out you start stacking sites, or collaborate with other fleets in the system by building yours around just one and increase your ISK\h by not having to do the others). For Assaults it would be the same, with the drawback that the different site completely sucks and is the slowest no matter what fleet does them, then again nobody really want to do Assaults, since you need 3-5 T3 for them that just slow you down in the other sites.

When we now go back to HQ sites, it is very easy to say that DIN killed a mom because they got contested by ISN(just a example) and there is a lot of drama around it. However ISN does the contests to boost it's ISK per hour, while DIN threaten or actually take the mom to make ISN stop doing it. In both cases both channels do it for "drum roll" ISK. It is basically the same thing for repetitive mom kills soon after spawning, it is just done to reinforce the the position of one channel towards another(with the exception of the last that was taken down by TDF with a simple message "stop that **** or we make it a permanent state"). However it will continue probably sooner than later since the original problem still stands, to many people compete over to few sites and use the mom kill as threat/denial option against other channels.

The only solution would be:

A: One of the big channels goes down to Assaults/VGs, what requires a lot more active FCs and makes less isk, causing most likely members to switch to other channels.
B: A Inc agreement like back in the days, between the channel, possible but like in the old days I doubt it lasts.
C: One of the channels splits apart, then again you would have most of the members in different community making them bigger, leaving you with thet same problem.
D: CCP adds more HQ systems to the Incs or changes the MOM mechanics, probably the safest bet to resolve it, however given the amount of content support by :CCP: it will probably only happen when things really get out of hand(meaning not just a week but months of instant mom kills).

Because they can be.

There's a lot of ego that remains unchecked from the major communities--DIN, ISN, ICU, etc. Some of it is warranted. However, there comes a time when that needs to be reigned in, and this past week several active mercenaries got in touch with the major groups and said, "We see you playing games and affecting us, we'll respond."

Hence why Incursions remain active right now, as they did this past weekend and they probably will this coming weekend.

It used to be that DIN, ISN, ICU, etc. would each go to a different Incursion area and "claim" it. The MOM wouldn't be popped until the area was in withdrawal. That has changed over the past seen-ish months, with DIN, ISN, and ICU contesting each other, and the contested entity throwing the equivalent of a hissy-fit.

The smaller groups such as WTM, WIN, and RKI are terrific if you want to avoid the hassle of the drama.

Added, Checked, and verified links in OP.

I have seen TVP venture in to Low a few times in the last month, and I have been sent a mail from someone trying to put together a Low sec group, I will adjust the OP when I get a mail back from him.

Part of this is correct and part of it is not.

Actually people feel satisfaction from different things in game. While most people set up for themselves goals to achieve, like earn XXX amount of ISC, build ship / corporation / alliance; take and control certain area of game universe...... there will always be people who feel good and important only when they draw attention of others, and the fastest way to get it is to hurt others, to interrupt those who are on their way to their goal. Later on those, who got hurt and took it personally start hunting and hurting their griefers in return and in the end there might be several big communities that are involved in the same activity, but have their own goals and these goals are not only different, but sometimes they are hostile by default toward the goals of other community.

In case of Incursions, there are about 7 big communities, that are doing HQ sites on regular basis and way more smaller groups that are doing other sites. And if we'd take into account only these "big players", most of them have different goals, or open conflicts with each other:

ISN for example is concentrated on drawing pilots with "shiny" pimped pirate BS and reaching the top ISC/h. The easiest way to do that is to find a weaker fleet, which allows new players with weaker ships to fly in their fleets and as result can't effectively contest them. Then just follow that fleet to each site, contest them over and earn ISC twice as fast while leaving other fleet with nothing. And no, ISN is not interested in pushing the weaker fleet out of HQ systems to the AS or VG, as that would mean that there will be no "slave fleets" to earn ISC for them and then they'll be simply unable to earn the ISC/h which they promise to their members - it's simply not achievable without above mentioned mechanics of contesting others.

In their own turn ISN have been contested by DIN-Flotten in the past and they have a lot of grudge against each other DIN contested ISN, then ISN contested DIN, and Later DIN got stronger and returned favor again.... and this goes on. At the present stage neither one of these two can have 100 % guarantee to contest each other, thus DIN prefer to stay on a different focus and avoid conflicts with ISN, but if ISN come to the same focus and start to mess, DIN usually close the focus saying "don’t mess with us or we'll mess with you the way that you won't like yourselves". And this is not because DIN can't contest - they can, and they have done it and won the contests - but their politics is to stay out of contest and earn ISC by themselves, not using "slave fleets". Therefore DIN often take attempts to control spawns of incursions to assure that there would always be at least two active incursions in High sec and there would not be need to get into conflict with ISN.

But when DIN try to control the spawns, they get into conflict with TVP and WTM communities, that concentrate on farming incursions 24/7 and are not interested in changing focus more often that it's absolutely necessary, therefore they are getting angry, that someone is doing something not according to their plans of 24/7 farm and rage pop moms to show that they can have influence as well. And while goals of TVP and WTM are almost similar they are in conflict with each other as well as they have been the same community and have split due to the internal conflicts, so they are not interested in well being of each other as well :-)

If all those things would not be enough, there are couple more players on the board: two Russian speaking communities RAISA and GIP Inc these two again could have share the same interests and goals, but there's predefined conflict as the founders of these communities have had an old conflict while being all members of GIP Inc which resulted in splitting and opening a new community RAISA, which eventually have overgrown GIP in member count (and is actually second biggest incursion community now), but conflict still remains and these two channels are competing over player base (it only makes it harder that both channels are Russian speaking), over sites and so on and therefore they are not interested in flying in the same constellation as well.

While all this pot of egos and interests boils hot, there is one more big player - The Ditanian Fleet. The biggest and almost the only one of it's kind the armor community. They seemingly are neutral and do not have conflicts with other communities as they don't compete over pilots with "shieldies", but again they did not like, when other communities started closing the incursions and added their rage into conflict as well, saying "Don't forget - we can do it too" :-)

blah blah blah, Padegejas stop shitting up a useful thread.

Tips for future posting:

1. Start a new thread in the correct sub-forum,
2. Get your facts right first,
3. 'ISK'

Everyone has their perspective of INCURSION DRAMA (caps to add a little emphasis), the perspective is usually skewed since most authors in this forum are not omnipotent and have only their viewpoint to asses cause and effect. Is there Drama? Simple yes will do. Is it caused by any one group more than others? Probably not.

Of course the easy way to look at it is to imagine the perspective from your own vantage point.

As a TVP pilot, I see ISN as a harassing force taking away my ISK making potential with contest proving my fleet has less SP than theirs. Whats up with that?

As an ISN pilot, I see myself as a teacher of other groups in how they should fit and fly to protect their ISK earning potential.

As a TDF pilot, I can’t understand why anyone would fly with the ‘Shieldies’ and deal with the Drama Queens that pollute their ranks, don’t they know the oldest, most reasonable not to mention safest group is armor.

As a GIP pilot, Silly English speaking groups don’t they know you can’t beat Mother Russia.

As a DIN pilot, Why wouldn’t you Box fleet? Making 1 to 2 billion an hour leaves me more time to do the other things I want in EVE.

As a New Guy, I want to try Incursions but I really don’t want to deal with any of these groups and their never-ending stream of He said, She said, Dramalama

Find your own group and your own perspective, and try to remember every one has an answer, usually wrong, but it’s an answer.

And yes, if we are going to discuss the Drama please start a new thread, or find one of the many that already exist.

Many Incursion runners have an alt that flies an Orca to carry extra ships, modules and ammo. One of the really funny things to see at the end of an Incursion is the station vomiting BS’s and Orca’s. I have seen 20 Orca’s and 40 BS’s undock from a station all at once when it’s time to move to a new focus. You will find every Incursion has an industrious toon or three that is selling ammunition to the transient population. But when you get in a fleet and find your running low on Ammo first thing you should do is ask if anyone has any for sale, I know I carry about 300k rounds of each type and I am happy to sell it to fleet members at a ‘cover the cost’ price to keep the fleet running uninterrupted.

As for Ammo use, when I use my Blaster Vindicator I go through about 5000 rounds of Nul and Void every 4 hours, My Arty Mach goes through 2000-3000 rounds of Republic Fleet EMP and Quake every 5 to 6 hours, and my Nightmare needs 4 spare crystals of every type because one set is guaranteed to break during the fleet (I think you get 4-6 hours of use out of a crystal).

As for the cost, I personally find I have lots of spare time between fleets and sometimes between Incursion spawns, so I build T1 Ammo and use LP to trade it for Faction Ammo, bringing my cost down to almost nothing. I also fire up a pos and build 1mil rounds of each T2 ammo about once every 6 months or so for 200 to 300 ISK each. I am pretty sure I am not the only one that does this, so check with the group your flying with you will probably find plenty of friends to buy Ammo from or to help haul your stockpile around from place to place.

Edit; If you do want someone to haul it around for you, get a medium secure can to trade back and forth (It makes it a lot easier for the hauler to find your stuff and get it back to you at the other end).

Was informed today the ICU folded, the community merged with TVP making a new chat channel 'The Vanguard Project'.

Check them out.