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New Super-Cap balancing this winter
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Ikka Sunto
Impen Reloaded
#1 - 2011-10-12 14:53:34 UTC
So from reading the latest dev blog, http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2674, I'm now wondering how nullsec warfare will be changed. Loss of drones for titans/dreads, loss of regular drones for supercarriers, quicker siege mode for dreads, and the two most valuable changes in my view: 20% reduction in shields/armor/structure for titans and moms, and the logoffski changes. So what will happen to nullsec wars now? Will we have a more cautious and strategic battlefield, or will it be more of the same?
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-10-12 19:33:51 UTC
Hey look another supercapital thread.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
KFenn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-12 20:18:22 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Hey look another supercapital thread.

But one that's actually looking at the nerf in context and not just bitching about it.

Tbh I think one of 2 things is gonna happen:
1) Post-nerf everyone starts shitting themselves at the very thought of flying them and no-one engages in a supercap, ever.
2) The current state of warfare continues and there will be supercap killmails and delicious forum tears everywhere.

Certainly it'll mark the death of supercap-only fleets and bring back the days of using caps as heavy logistics/support, which'll be interesting.

But this is all theorycrafting and speculation... we'll have to wait and see.

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-10-12 21:10:04 UTC
KFenn wrote:
Tbh I think one of 2 things is gonna happen:
1) Post-nerf everyone starts shitting themselves at the very thought of flying them and no-one engages in a supercap, ever.
2) The current state of warfare continues and there will be supercap killmails and delicious forum tears everywhere.


I have prayed to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that it is option one.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Goose99
#5 - 2011-10-12 22:03:07 UTC
-20% less hp means moms take 80% of forever to kill

-Limiting moms to fighters/fighter bombers means moms still use fighter bombers.

-5 minute siege mode means sieged dreads still take a minute to pop

What changed?Lol
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#6 - 2011-10-12 22:19:26 UTC
The loss of the Logoffski Maneuver changes quite a bit. 80% of forever still means you killed the mom, even if the pilot logs off.

Given CCP's recent missteps, I much prefer they take small steps toward fixing supercaps that have marginal impact than massive ones that will break the whole game.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-13 01:18:29 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
The loss of the Logoffski Maneuver changes quite a bit. 80% of forever still means you killed the mom, even if the pilot logs off.

Given CCP's recent missteps, I much prefer they take small steps toward fixing supercaps that have marginal impact than massive ones that will break the whole game.

None of the proposed changes are game-breaking despite what members of certain alliances would like you to believe.
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#8 - 2011-10-13 01:30:34 UTC
Isn't there an official thread somewhere that these changes are being discussed in? Owait.... there is.

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.  He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#9 - 2011-10-13 02:17:51 UTC
I think the only major change is the logoff dynamic. Rather than seeing just 2-3 die in a 1000 ship fight, we'll see 50 die and that's certainly a good thing. But other than that, the changes are minor and largely insignificant. The dread's reduction in siege time was a change we were looking for, but it also needed a tracking fix and some sort of tanking fix. Neither of which were addressed. CCP was far too bold when they buffed SC's and are now being far to timid in nerfing them I think.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-10-13 06:25:48 UTC
Taram Caldar wrote:
Isn't there an official thread somewhere that these changes are being discussed in? Owait.... there is.


True and that discussion is on the specifics of changes and recommendations to modify/mitigate said changes, not on how such changes may or may not impact war and tactics -- what this forum is about.

As for changes - I agree with the rest here: It's very "wait and see". Tactically speaking, nothing can be planned until the changes are finalized.

The logoffski - good move, not only for super caps but for all ships.

Super caps? Those are SOV toys - losing the *I WIN* factor from them. so others can destroy them... Good thing.

Dreads - It is unclear how all the changes will manifest but it does show promise of making them useful for more than just POS bashes and wormhole escalations.

Carriers - hopefully little change to these. They are function and work decently the way they are. They are potent but can and are destroyed by small to mid-sized gangs when caught.

What I do wonder about is when the "self-destruct" portions of the game will come under fire when all this blows over. If you can't get away and still take several minutes to kill - going for this option will be much more popular and KB huggers will find the idea of "juicy SC kills!!!" far from tasty with 10 losses and no kill-mail due to a self-destruct.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-10-13 13:00:03 UTC
Mocam wrote:
[quote=Taram Caldar]What I do wonder about is when the "self-destruct" portions of the game will come under fire when all this blows over. If you can't get away and still take several minutes to kill - going for this option will be much more popular and KB huggers will find the idea of "juicy SC kills!!!" far from tasty with 10 losses and no kill-mail due to a self-destruct.


I'll have FRAPS running. Winter is coming.
FOl2TY8
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-10-13 19:33:17 UTC  |  Edited by: FOl2TY8
Mocam wrote:


What I do wonder about is when the "self-destruct" portions of the game will come under fire when all this blows over. If you can't get away and still take several minutes to kill - going for this option will be much more popular and KB huggers will find the idea of "juicy SC kills!!!" far from tasty with 10 losses and no kill-mail due to a self-destruct.


Someone self destructing their supercap is a good thing. You will know in your heart that you are a tough guy.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#13 - 2011-10-14 07:44:04 UTC
Nothing changes as time-dilation will go live at the same time and tracking/sig deficient fighters are perfectly capable of one-volleying any sub-cap they want by manually ordering them about and the few ships that evade are instantly popped by tracking linked Titans.

In short: SC/Titan blobs will remain, there will still be no counter to them. Dread pilots operating outside of blob-land will see a vast increase in survivability and Carriers will never be used outside the triage role ever again.

Now if CCP pulls a rabbit and does something nifty to the sovereignty system that penalizes excessive blobbing all that may change, but I doubt they have the balls (read: intelligence, 'cause they are male and everyone know where mens brains are!) to do something like that.
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-10-14 09:13:07 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
but I doubt they have the balls (read: intelligence, 'cause they are male and everyone know where mens brains are!) to do something like that.

oh dear
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#15 - 2011-10-14 12:08:29 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:

[...] but I doubt they have the balls (read: intelligence, 'cause they are male and everyone know where mens brains are!) to do something like that.



Where's the "Dislike" button, when you need it, CCP?

Keep that bellicose feminist garbage out of here, troll...

Ni.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-10-16 10:36:51 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Nothing changes as time-dilation will go live at the same time and tracking/sig deficient fighters are perfectly capable of one-volleying any sub-cap they want by manually ordering them about and the few ships that evade are instantly popped by tracking linked Titans.

In short: SC/Titan blobs will remain, there will still be no counter to them. Dread pilots operating outside of blob-land will see a vast increase in survivability and Carriers will never be used outside the triage role ever again.

Now if CCP pulls a rabbit and does something nifty to the sovereignty system that penalizes excessive blobbing all that may change, but I doubt they have the balls (read: intelligence, 'cause they are male and everyone know where mens brains are!) to do something like that.


lol!!!!

Gotta love that expression.

The question is: What is "excessive" blobbing?

- Ask a highsec mission runner stepping into a 5 ship gate camp - that was excessive.
- Ask that gate camp about the 20 ship gang that jumped in - that was excessive.
- Ask the 100 ship gang about the 10 super carriers and 60 support ships - that was excessive.
- Ask the 500 ships that just met 1000...

You get the idea.

There is little to no consensus on how many are excessive and all attempts at getting there yield "our space finds ..." results with numbers coming out of ... let's just say they don't mesh up even from different residents of supposedly the same space.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-10-17 06:24:58 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Now if CCP pulls a rabbit and does something nifty to the sovereignty system that penalizes excessive blobbing all that may change, but I doubt they have the balls (read: intelligence, 'cause they are male and everyone know where mens brains are!) to do something like that.


thank you, what eve really needs is more opinions from non-sov, non-nullsec entities, telling us how sov is broken and horrible and everything wrong with eve.

Trolling aside, Hirana, you consistently amaze me with your ability to be wrong about everything. Never change.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-10-17 08:18:37 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Nothing changes as time-dilation will go live at the same time and tracking/sig deficient fighters are perfectly capable of one-volleying any sub-cap they want by manually ordering them about and the few ships that evade are instantly popped by tracking linked Titans.

In short: SC/Titan blobs will remain, there will still be no counter to them. Dread pilots operating outside of blob-land will see a vast increase in survivability and Carriers will never be used outside the triage role ever again.

Now if CCP pulls a rabbit and does something nifty to the sovereignty system that penalizes excessive blobbing all that may change, but I doubt they have the balls (read: intelligence, 'cause they are male and everyone know where mens brains are!) to do something like that.


lol!!!!

Gotta love that expression.

The question is: What is "excessive" blobbing?

- Ask a highsec mission runner stepping into a 5 ship gate camp - that was excessive.
- Ask that gate camp about the 20 ship gang that jumped in - that was excessive.
- Ask the 100 ship gang about the 10 super carriers and 60 support ships - that was excessive.
- Ask the 500 ships that just met 1000...

You get the idea.

There is little to no consensus on how many are excessive and all attempts at getting there yield "our space finds ..." results with numbers coming out of ... let's just say they don't mesh up even from different residents of supposedly the same space.


It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp. Big smile
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-10-17 09:02:12 UTC
Feligast wrote:
It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp. Big smile


whenever people complain about "blobs", i feel like pointing them in the direction of literally any other game on the market where "blobbing" is prevented by basic game mechanics
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#20 - 2011-10-17 09:28:19 UTC
Regarding the Dreads, i see alot more POSs go down, if you have enough you can make hit and runs with 5min seigde easier before anyone can response.

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
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