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Any news about the "real" AI?

Author
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#1 - 2013-02-18 10:18:57 UTC
Is there any news about when the "real" AI is ready for deployment?
EvE is starting to get boring without ratterhunting..
addelee
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-02-18 12:06:10 UTC
What do you mean by "real" AI?

They've already changed the AI for all NPC's be it belt rats or mission rats.
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#3 - 2013-02-18 12:11:23 UTC
addelee wrote:
What do you mean by "real" AI?

They've already changed the AI for all NPC's be it belt rats or mission rats.


I mean the AI that CCP FoxFour told us CCP would make to replace the current failiure..
The one considering damage done to rats rather than silly things such as sig radius and use of ewar on other players.
Connery Domino
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-02-18 16:14:30 UTC
Singira wrote:
addelee wrote:
What do you mean by "real" AI?

They've already changed the AI for all NPC's be it belt rats or mission rats.


I mean the AI that CCP FoxFour told us CCP would make to replace the current failiure..
The one considering damage done to rats rather than silly things such as sig radius and use of ewar on other players.


I hear when you PVP, the AI is pretty crazy at times. ;D
Larloch TheAncient
Freindly Mining Corporation
#5 - 2013-02-18 16:50:44 UTC
So your mad that you can't jump onto an ship made to tank rats in your PVP ship made to kill ships.


Why should he not be happy that you can't tank rats in ship made to kill players?



Why does all the disadvantage have to be on the PVE'er?


Grow a pair, he has a huge disadvantage against you due to the way he outfitted his ship, this allows him to stand up against hordes of rats.


You have a huge advantage over his ship, this however makes you very vulnerable to hordes of rats.



TLDR; This is fair and balanced.


If your a cloaky gank or something, just wait until the rats are destroyed before you attack him.
CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#6 - 2013-02-18 17:52:20 UTC
So unfair rats attacking your pvp ship when you try to kill a mission runner...!!! Sad

Yeah CCP should definitively should "fix" that in the AI. Ugh
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#7 - 2013-02-18 18:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Singira
Bears got angry I see..

Thanks for your oppinionated irrelevant input.

This is not a question about fair or unfair, it is a question about when the promised AI will see the light of day.

This is not a question of "fixing" the AI, this is a matter of applying the "real" AI for "normal" rats as CCP FoxFour stated in the post about this AI before it was applied.

If you so badly want NPC bodyguards, then head out to W-space, where there is no local, intelchannels, stations or jumpbridges to save you..
Then im fine with the rats helping their nemesis..

Larloch TheAncient wrote:


Why does all the disadvantage have to be on the PVE'er?


Intel channels, even intel maps with sound alarm in some alliances.

Blinking Local channel when new players enter or exit.

~20sec headstart from the neut jumps from the other system till grid is loaded while beeing in your local.
10sec scanning for anoms.
~20-30 sec Dscanning to locate the ratter.
~10-30sec warping to anom and >maby< landing within tackle range of the ratter.

Really.. Practically allways at least a full minute for the ratter to align out and gtfo from the time a neut enters local..

There is allso the option of *Gasp* actually tanking your ship properly instead of only going for max isk/tick..

Please explain to me how sitting in a significantly larger ship, with all your alliance mates in local and neigbouring systems is having "all the disadvantage" over a single frigate-class ship?

If you feel that it is a unfair gamemechanic that players can shoot eachother while playing with NPC's in 0.0 or low-sec, then either don't rat there, or feel free to add suggestions on the relevant subforum.

There really is no excuse for getting caught in an Anom or Plex besides stupidity or lack of attention.
Why do you feel either of these things should be rewarded with NPC bodyguards?

Edit: Should the reward for ratting in 0.0 and lowsec not be lower since the risk is significantly lower than it used to be before this AI? Risk = Reward is what I keep hearing from CCP, but now it is allmost risk free ratting yet the bounties remain?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-18 20:36:11 UTC
Rats hate ewar. Point is ewar. Solution: don't fit a point, after all, your dangerous opponent isn't fitting one.Lol
Larloch TheAncient
Freindly Mining Corporation
#9 - 2013-02-18 22:06:41 UTC
Singira wrote:
Bears got angry I see..

Thanks for your oppinionated irrelevant input.


Why did you post this on the forums if you weren't wanting feedback?

Just because you didn't hear what you wanted from your rant doesn't mean you can decide you "didn't want any responses".

Quote:

This is not a question about fair or unfair, it is a question about when the promised AI will see the light of day.

This is not a question of "fixing" the AI, this is a matter of applying the "real" AI for "normal" rats as CCP FoxFour stated in the post about this AI before it was applied.


If its not about fair or unfair why exactly are you on the forums whining about it again?

Quote:

If you so badly want NPC bodyguards, then head out to W-space, where there is no local, intelchannels, stations or jumpbridges to save you..
Then im fine with the rats helping their nemesis..


You say that almost as if you don't have intel channels,

local (to know when to stop and look for people PVE'ing),

the map (to show exactly where in the universe (almost) people are pve'ing at,

spy's to provide intel and a hell of alot of other advantages.



Again, you have intel as well so I'm not sure what your whining about.

Quote:

Blinking Local channel when new players enter or exit.


And when your "ganking" someone fairly, do you not watch local like a hawk to see reinforcements?

Stop being so biased and just think about what your saying.... Your whining about advantages that you readily take advantage of.

Quote:

~20sec headstart from the neut jumps from the other system till grid is loaded while beeing in your local.
10sec scanning for anoms.
~20-30 sec Dscanning to locate the ratter.
~10-30sec warping to anom and >maby< landing within tackle range of the ratter.


So whats the problem with this?

Would you like to be dropped on grid with anyone in system when you jump in?

Also, all of these things imply that the PVE'er stops what they're doing (making isk) to evade you, which while it seems like you lose, really the ratter doesn't win either.

Larloch TheAncient
Freindly Mining Corporation
#10 - 2013-02-18 22:06:59 UTC
Quote:

Really.. Practically allways at least a full minute for the ratter to align out and gtfo from the time a neut enters local..

There is allso the option of *Gasp* actually tanking your ship properly instead of only going for max isk/tick..


*Gasp* I'm pretty sure the only person whining about not being able to handle any damage in this thread is you.

So *double gasp* why don't you fit some tank to be able to take the rats and the ratter?

Or is that to unfair for you?

Quote:

Please explain to me how sitting in a significantly larger ship, with all your alliance mates in local and neigbouring systems is having "all the disadvantage" over a single frigate-class ship?


Please tell me, if your going up against someone with all these advantages, you should be able to come out on top a significant amount of the time?

Why should you in your little 30 mil isk SB, be able to kill that 1 Bil isk ship in his home system with his friends nearby?

The only person not understanding Risk vs Reward is you.

Quote:

If you feel that it is a unfair gamemechanic that players can shoot eachother while playing with NPC's in 0.0 or low-sec, then either don't rat there, or feel free to add suggestions on the relevant subforum.


Actually the only person who has been having a pity party with game mechanics in this thread is you.

I and almost everyone I know has no problem with being shot at while PVE'ing by both PVP'ers and Rats, but don't expect to have the rats just take your side 100% of the time.

Quote:

There really is no excuse for getting caught in an Anom or Plex besides stupidity or lack of attention.
Why do you feel either of these things should be rewarded with NPC bodyguards?


Theres really no excuse to be caught in a stealth ship in nullsec these days, why do you think you should get easy kills with the NPC's only helping your side?

Quote:

Edit: Should the reward for ratting in 0.0 and lowsec not be lower since the risk is significantly lower than it used to be before this AI? Risk = Reward is what I keep hearing from CCP, but now it is allmost risk free ratting yet the bounties remain?


how about you actually learn to PVP?

Ganking ratters isn't it, and if you think it is then your an idiot.

How about you show up in local with an equal sized ship?

Or better yet with friends as well, then when your "helpless" ratters roll out in they're pvp ships you can both have some fun.

And hey, if they don't, alteast you can have all the "risk less" ratting/anoms you want right on they're front steps.
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#11 - 2013-02-19 10:13:53 UTC
Larloch TheAncient wrote:


Why did you post this on the forums if you weren't wanting feedback?



I asked for news on the promised AI, not your oppinion on game mechanics.

Rest of your rabble im not going to bother with, as it is really completely unrelated and I hope it is just a troll.

If not then: If you don't want the risk of PvP while doing your PvE, then stick to Highsec....

Risk of getting attacked while doing PvE in 0.0 is why you earn more ratting..

It is that simple..
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#12 - 2013-02-19 10:44:54 UTC
For the ones who have no damn clue what im talking about..

CCP FoxFour wrote:



  • After Retribution we will be making a change to the AI so that they only consider damage being dealt to them as something to increase a targets threat. That way when you warp in to kill someone running an anomaly shooting the player does not make the NPC hate you.
  • Also after Retribution, and on the same topic as the previous point, we will be making it so that unless you do something like shoot the NPC or repair a player the NPC won't take your signature radius into account when evaluating targets. Even with the above change without this one frigates would still switch targets.




https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421

Now stick to this please, rather than crying your eyes out cause not everyone shares your white knight approach to pvp.
Larloch TheAncient
Freindly Mining Corporation
#13 - 2013-02-19 14:09:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Larloch TheAncient
Singira wrote:
Larloch TheAncient wrote:


Why did you post this on the forums if you weren't wanting feedback?



I asked for news on the promised AI, not your oppinion on game mechanics.

Rest of your rabble im not going to bother with, as it is really completely unrelated and I hope it is just a troll.

If not then: If you don't want the risk of PvP while doing your PvE, then stick to Highsec....

Risk of getting attacked while doing PvE in 0.0 is why you earn more ratting..

It is that simple..



Fair enough, I'll take that advice.

And for you, if you don't want to risk PVE while your doing your PVP.

Look up the new dueling mechanics in the lineup, and go play against your corp mates and they're buddies.

And honestly, if thats CCP's stance, they should change it.

I'm tired of CCP listening to people just because they whine, regardless of balance and what makes sense.
Rengerel en Distel
#14 - 2013-02-19 14:21:39 UTC
Singira wrote:
For the ones who have no damn clue what im talking about..

CCP FoxFour wrote:



  • After Retribution we will be making a change to the AI so that they only consider damage being dealt to them as something to increase a targets threat. That way when you warp in to kill someone running an anomaly shooting the player does not make the NPC hate you.
  • Also after Retribution, and on the same topic as the previous point, we will be making it so that unless you do something like shoot the NPC or repair a player the NPC won't take your signature radius into account when evaluating targets. Even with the above change without this one frigates would still switch targets.




https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421

Now stick to this please, rather than crying your eyes out cause not everyone shares your white knight approach to pvp.


CCP FoxFour is no longer on that team. The people in charge of the AI are the same ones doing the ship rebalancing. Guess which is the higher priority ...

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Samuel Wess
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-02-19 15:02:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Samuel Wess
The AI is broken if the NPC are switching to targets that show no threat to them while beeing engaged by
targets damaging them.
Also my standings with the NPC are not beeing considered. If i have +8 with Sansha, than why are they
opening fire on my ship on every gate instead of acting like the highsec NPC and beeing supportive to the
pilots with good standing and only shooting the pilots with bad standing or if i shoot first ?

Edit: This will open a couple of posibilities, if you hunt in serpentis space you could improve your standings
with serpentis and than be their ally fighting their enemy (the players shooting them)

Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"

Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#16 - 2013-02-19 18:11:53 UTC
Larloch TheAncient wrote:
Singira wrote:
Larloch TheAncient wrote:


Why did you post this on the forums if you weren't wanting feedback?



I asked for news on the promised AI, not your oppinion on game mechanics.

Rest of your rabble im not going to bother with, as it is really completely unrelated and I hope it is just a troll.

If not then: If you don't want the risk of PvP while doing your PvE, then stick to Highsec....

Risk of getting attacked while doing PvE in 0.0 is why you earn more ratting..

It is that simple..



Fair enough, I'll take that advice.

And for you, if you don't want to risk PVE while your doing your PVP.

Look up the new dueling mechanics in the lineup, and go play against your corp mates and they're buddies.

And honestly, if thats CCP's stance, they should change it.

I'm tired of CCP listening to people just because they whine, regardless of balance and what makes sense.


I just want the AI that was promised, or at least a date for it..
But even more I want you to realize that your idea of how PvP should work is not the right one or the wrong one..
It is just your oppinion, and counts for no more than your oppinion..
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#17 - 2013-02-19 18:15:54 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Singira wrote:
For the ones who have no damn clue what im talking about..

CCP FoxFour wrote:



  • After Retribution we will be making a change to the AI so that they only consider damage being dealt to them as something to increase a targets threat. That way when you warp in to kill someone running an anomaly shooting the player does not make the NPC hate you.
  • Also after Retribution, and on the same topic as the previous point, we will be making it so that unless you do something like shoot the NPC or repair a player the NPC won't take your signature radius into account when evaluating targets. Even with the above change without this one frigates would still switch targets.




https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421

Now stick to this please, rather than crying your eyes out cause not everyone shares your white knight approach to pvp.


CCP FoxFour is no longer on that team. The people in charge of the AI are the same ones doing the ship rebalancing. Guess which is the higher priority ...


I have heard nothing about this, but I know wich has higher priority for me..
But in all honesty, I don't care much..
I just wanna know if there is any estimated time for this AI, because im beginning to grow bored with the kind of PvP im forced to do atm.
Larloch TheAncient
Freindly Mining Corporation
#18 - 2013-02-19 19:47:46 UTC
Singira wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Singira wrote:
For the ones who have no damn clue what im talking about..

CCP FoxFour wrote:



  • After Retribution we will be making a change to the AI so that they only consider damage being dealt to them as something to increase a targets threat. That way when you warp in to kill someone running an anomaly shooting the player does not make the NPC hate you.
  • Also after Retribution, and on the same topic as the previous point, we will be making it so that unless you do something like shoot the NPC or repair a player the NPC won't take your signature radius into account when evaluating targets. Even with the above change without this one frigates would still switch targets.




https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421

Now stick to this please, rather than crying your eyes out cause not everyone shares your white knight approach to pvp.


CCP FoxFour is no longer on that team. The people in charge of the AI are the same ones doing the ship rebalancing. Guess which is the higher priority ...


I have heard nothing about this, but I know wich has higher priority for me..
But in all honesty, I don't care much..
I just wanna know if there is any estimated time for this AI, because im beginning to grow bored with the kind of PvP im forced to do atm.



So of course you must realize that the same logic applies to you right?

In any case, I'm sorry you are no longer able to kill ratters as easily as before.
Singira
Heffalumps and Woozles.
#19 - 2013-02-19 21:17:21 UTC
Larloch TheAncient wrote:
Singira wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Singira wrote:
For the ones who have no damn clue what im talking about..

CCP FoxFour wrote:



  • After Retribution we will be making a change to the AI so that they only consider damage being dealt to them as something to increase a targets threat. That way when you warp in to kill someone running an anomaly shooting the player does not make the NPC hate you.
  • Also after Retribution, and on the same topic as the previous point, we will be making it so that unless you do something like shoot the NPC or repair a player the NPC won't take your signature radius into account when evaluating targets. Even with the above change without this one frigates would still switch targets.




https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421

Now stick to this please, rather than crying your eyes out cause not everyone shares your white knight approach to pvp.


CCP FoxFour is no longer on that team. The people in charge of the AI are the same ones doing the ship rebalancing. Guess which is the higher priority ...


I have heard nothing about this, but I know wich has higher priority for me..
But in all honesty, I don't care much..
I just wanna know if there is any estimated time for this AI, because im beginning to grow bored with the kind of PvP im forced to do atm.



So of course you must realize that the same logic applies to you right?

In any case, I'm sorry you are no longer able to kill ratters as easily as before.


I haven't made any claims about how pvp should or should not be done..

I think you should try it out for yourself before telling me about how it should be done or how easy it is..
Because to be honest it sounds like you are inexperienced and have only tried this sort of pvp from the ratters perspective.
If it is so easy as you claim, it should be no problem at all right?

Now could you please find some other tread to fill with oppinionated offtopic posts?
DSpite Culhach
#20 - 2013-02-20 06:07:51 UTC
Off topic a little, as I have seen this come up a fair bit.

Like its been said by someone here, there should be a few more variables as to what the AI picks as targets, and standing should be one. If a player has +5 vs the NPC's and the mission runnuer has -5, that should also be a factor.

As far as the AI switching, if the attacked player stopped firing, and concentrated on the attacker, there should still be a chance for the NPC to target either ship. I'm not saying 50/50 but neither should it be 99/1.

Everyone keeps saying that everything in this game should have a risk/vs reward and every time you make a part of the game have a highly predictable outcome because you piled up a bunch of stats, it makes that a little weird.

Mission AI predictability is already stupid and too easy for runners, it's even more annoying if those numbers can be used to calculate chances of killing ships easier.

Would really be nice if more randomness was thrown into the whole NPC equation. Probably just me.

But I do agree with the OP that the NPC shouldn't just toss a coin and attack someone.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

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