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If clones were free would more PVP?
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Pewty McPew
EVE Corporation 2357451
#1 - 2013-02-17 23:22:47 UTC
Lets forget for a moment the Darwin issue of forgetting to upgrade/renew you medical clone and losing SP.

If free medical clones were provided to all players would this encourage more people to participate in PVP?

Players with over 100 mil SP are sometimes averted to PVP because of the cost of replacement clones at that level. Even lower level players can be drained having to replace countless clones. Without the worry of losing 10x or more the cost of the T1 firgate you are flying I think more players would be more willing to give it a try. At least on a more casual level you could JC into a implantless clone, go on a lo/null sec adventure for the afternoon and not have to worry about losing 75+ mil ISK and potential SP loss. It may just be the determining factor for alot of unsure players who wanted to get their feet wet but were afraid to.

Even most serious PVPers have alts to help augment their income to pay for their fun and also allow them access to hisec. Would it not also be beneficial to them to have one less thing to worry about? Let them concentrate on what they do best, killing.


Just wondering other opinions on this.
Hixeppa
Shamrock Corp.
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#2 - 2013-02-17 23:23:47 UTC
No. If you've reached 100M SP and are still pissing yourself over a little clone cost, you were never going to be a pvper. Carebear on.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-02-17 23:26:06 UTC
ehh... probably some? Though I imagine we'd be seeing rookie ship fleets more often mostly more than anything.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#4 - 2013-02-17 23:33:02 UTC
Consequences.

The Tears Must Flow
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-02-17 23:43:38 UTC
I don't think I would pvp more but I would probably fly cheaper ships.

.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#6 - 2013-02-17 23:48:51 UTC
Agreed clone reactivation costs / upgrade costs are total BS and could very well be removed, ISK can be sunk elsewhere. Tying additional costs to character age is indeed stupid. I truly dread the day I decide to train a char on the same account for this very reason. I like my main and I'd prefer to keep investing in it instead of spreading my attention over multiple characters.

Disagreeing implants are an issue per se, empty clones can be the norm. It's players advocating rushing your SP as fast as possible that are the problem causing people to rage over implant loss. Grinding up for a JC for a single corp of your choice isn't that much grind, especially when you are in a player corp that's newbie-friendly and lets you tag along L3 / L4 missions.
Mathrin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-02-17 23:58:11 UTC
At over 50 mil SP I pay 13 mil a clone. Free clones would not effect my pvp at all. Heck I pod myself sometimes just to get back to jita for a few minutes.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-02-17 23:58:38 UTC
First they complain about implants, then they complain about clone costs. they will always come up with an excuse as to why they can't pvp.

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Renzo Ruderi
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-02-18 00:00:23 UTC
Hasn't this been brought up, like, six thousand times before?
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-02-18 00:19:58 UTC
now six thousand and one
Ckra Trald
Ckra Trald Corporation
#11 - 2013-02-18 00:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ckra Trald
when you have a ton of sp you could pay for an alt for pvp

nah

but really, reduced clone prices would be reasonable for higher SP players...

http://www.rusemen.com/ Join Tengoo xd
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-02-18 00:25:11 UTC
Renzo Ruderi wrote:
Hasn't this been brought up, like, six thousand times before?


Enough where they're looking into changing something about it *shrugs* so I guess we'll see what happens?
Austin McLaren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-02-18 00:26:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Austin McLaren
I have avoided/missed pvp beacuse of my implants, nothing else.
Jump clones are great but the timer is a big issue.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#14 - 2013-02-18 00:26:32 UTC
I already PvP in 5 to 30 million ISK frigates with a billion ISK implant set in my head... if I get podded the clone cost is the LAST thing I'll be mad about.

How did you Veterans start?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-02-18 00:26:37 UTC
most of the problem with pvp is targets

eve pvp is largely about forcing someone to fight because people like fights they can win and people tend not to agree with those

so what you need is either involuntary targets (ratters, etc) that get ganked, or things you can threaten to force fights (pocos, towers, sov)

for more pvp increase the involuntary targets or the things to threaten to create fights

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-02-18 00:36:24 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
most of the problem with pvp is targets

eve pvp is largely about forcing someone to fight because people like fights they can win and people tend not to agree with those

so what you need is either involuntary targets (ratters, etc) that get ganked, or things you can threaten to force fights (pocos, towers, sov)

for more pvp increase the involuntary targets or the things to threaten to create fights


Not far off. It also is about the value to them compared to the risk. If its more expensive for them to defend then it is to just let it go, that drops off the number of people willing to fight as well leaving the most loyal or those who just like fighting. The other thing is also, once things look hopeless, bam, fighting stops. No reason to keep suiciding your ships pointlessly. Overall though, yeah, has to be something to fight over and people believing they have a chance of victory or fun to maximize the number of people you get. Hated this sometimes in other games. A couple painful losses and people suddenly all disappear. Seems to happen little less often in EVE though.
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-02-18 00:36:53 UTC
Austin McLaren wrote:
I have avoided/missed pvp beacuse of my implants, nothing else.
Jump clones are great but the timer is a big issue.


yeah I agree. i'm sure there's good reasons for it but it kind of points to... alts! the JC with no timer.

I started a new character for PvP. just as well I get melted constantly.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-02-18 00:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
Aren Madigan wrote:

Not far off. It also is about the value to them compared to the risk. If its more expensive for them to defend then it is to just let it go, that drops off the number of people willing to fight as well leaving the most loyal or those who just like fighting. The other thing is also, once things look hopeless, bam, fighting stops. No reason to keep suiciding your ships pointlessly. Overall though, yeah, has to be something to fight over and people believing they have a chance of victory or fun to maximize the number of people you get. Hated this sometimes in other games. A couple painful losses and people suddenly all disappear. Seems to happen little less often in EVE though.

that happens all the time actually, it's basically how sov wars are won

with dominion sov it's essentially impossible to grind a region against opposition: the amount of time and money you have to spend is intolerable (mostly the time, really: I don't know why i included money). what you do is basically beat down your opponent often enough they stop coming out to play, so you can grind the region without any effective opposition

no wars in eve are really won anymore because the defender cannot win: they're won because the defender can't convince enough people to come out and defend, and then individuals and corporations start fleeing the sinking ship and the alliance itself collapses

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-02-18 00:47:54 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:

Not far off. It also is about the value to them compared to the risk. If its more expensive for them to defend then it is to just let it go, that drops off the number of people willing to fight as well leaving the most loyal or those who just like fighting. The other thing is also, once things look hopeless, bam, fighting stops. No reason to keep suiciding your ships pointlessly. Overall though, yeah, has to be something to fight over and people believing they have a chance of victory or fun to maximize the number of people you get. Hated this sometimes in other games. A couple painful losses and people suddenly all disappear. Seems to happen little less often in EVE though.

that happens all the time actually, it's basically how sov wars are won

with dominion sov it's essentially impossible to grind a region against opposition: the amount of time and money you have to spend is intolerable. what you do is basically beat down your opponent often enough they stop coming out to play, so you can grind the region without any effective opposition

no wars in eve are really won anymore because the defender cannot win: they're won because the defender can't convince enough people to come out and defend, and then individuals and corporations start fleeing the sinking ship and the alliance itself collapses


Fair enough. What is the point of Sov right now anyways, besides controlling the region? Are the more valuable items supposed to be out there, or is there something else out there? Or is that a big part of the problem? There being nothing out there that you can't get just as easily in non-sov null?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2013-02-18 00:51:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
Aren Madigan wrote:
Fair enough. What is the point of Sov right now anyways, besides controlling the region? Are the more valuable items supposed to be out there, or is there something else out there? Or is that a big part of the problem? There being nothing out there that you can't get just as easily in non-sov null?

sov gives you stations, and upgrades

with control over the only docking anywhere nearby you have a much better ability to control that area, and things like ratting upgrades make it better to live there. much better than living in npc 0.0 where someone can supply their ganking out of your home station. for regions with moons, it's very difficult to hold the moons without holding the sov, so by controlling the local stations and sov you have a significant leg up on controlling the moons (and if you can't, you're about to lose your sov)

but for moons, you just control lowsec or npc ones: PL is one of the richest alliances and controls an incredible amount of moons without really much sov. they don't have to pay for sov, maintain it, they can just collect venal and lowsec moons

it is fairly broken though, there's not really much upgradability, reasons to have your name on the map besides just having it on the map, and the sov conflict is horribly unfun for all involved

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
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