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What would happen if CCP eliminated SOV?

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Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#21 - 2013-02-17 13:52:00 UTC
Pewty McPew wrote:
Would would the effect be if Monday morning after server reset. Everyone logged into Eve and Sov was gone. Not just reset but totally eliminated. Sov holding structures just disappeared.

Would the null alliances still attempt to hold vast regions of 0.0? Would they consolidate their powerbase to a smaller area that is easier to protect? Would there be a mass influx to lo and hi sec by former null dwellers who say "Aw the heck with it.".


The gimps who complain about powerblocks and moon income would just move onto complaining about NPC nullsec powerblocks and moon income.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-02-17 13:56:05 UTC
Red Teufel wrote:
my guess ccp is just going to use dust to make it less of a structure grind. however everyone needs to understand back in the day it was only a few thousand players on at a single time. now we get 50k peeps online. there just isn't enough space.


There should be more than enough space on the current map, but most of it is terrible and not worth the ballache of the current sov grind to contest, so large alliances have spread out into all available regions unchallenged.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Pewty McPew
EVE Corporation 2357451
#23 - 2013-02-17 13:57:18 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Red Teufel wrote:
my guess ccp is just going to use dust to make it less of a structure grind. however everyone needs to understand back in the day it was only a few thousand players on at a single time. now we get 50k peeps online. there just isn't enough space.


I've traveled through null on more than a few occasions. Null is a desert with Oasis dotted about. Take of look at map statistics for pilots in system. Most of null is dark. There's a lot of space that isn't being utilized other than to have pos's extracting moon goo.


That's kinda why I posed the question. If Sov was removed, and anyone could go/build/claim space/extract goo without the need for Sov or the complication of Sov structures, would the null map remain unchanged? Would smaller alliances now have a chance to establish a foothold in a remote area or would everything collapse into one mega-alliance that covers all of null?

Without Sov you would actually have to defend your space in real-time without timers to protect you. If you haven't got the forces stationed in the system that's under attack, you could very well lose it all in a single battle. Seems bigger alliances would have a more difficult time keeping their borders expanding while still remaining protected. But that's just my opinion.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#24 - 2013-02-17 14:49:42 UTC
Pewty McPew wrote:
Would would the effect be if Monday morning after server reset. Everyone logged into Eve and Sov was gone. Not just reset but totally eliminated. Sov holding structures just disappeared.

Would the null alliances still attempt to hold vast regions of 0.0? Would they consolidate their powerbase to a smaller area that is easier to protect? Would there be a mass influx to lo and hi sec by former null dwellers who say "Aw the heck with it.".


No I'm sure they'd all just give you the space without fighting for it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-02-17 15:10:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Pewty McPew wrote:
Would would the effect be if Monday morning after server reset. Everyone logged into Eve and Sov was gone. Not just reset but totally eliminated. Sov holding structures just disappeared.

Would the null alliances still attempt to hold vast regions of 0.0? Would they consolidate their powerbase to a smaller area that is easier to protect? Would there be a mass influx to lo and hi sec by former null dwellers who say "Aw the heck with it.".


No I'm sure they'd all just give you the space without fighting for it.


They can have the worthless space, we'll just keep the moons.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2013-02-17 15:43:57 UTC
Orbital Dyke wrote:
It would create a more dynamic null instead of the stale krap we have now


Doubtful, its not SOV thats keeping things stale, its the method of capture, its unfun game play, and people just dont want to do it.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2013-02-17 15:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
To answer your question, it would be worse, currently a single system thats upgraded can support several people at once. With SOV removed, you'd be back to belt ratting, and the game, and 0.0 itself has probably grown beyond what belt ratting can support.

Meaning the vast empires you see would use all of their space and more, with members trickling into highsec and lowsec to make their money.


More importantly, what if people woke up monday with a clue about what they were talking about or asking about, how would that affect General Discussion?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#28 - 2013-02-17 15:53:26 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:



More importantly, what if people woke up monday with a clue about what they were talking about or asking about, how would that affect General Discussion?


Steady on, son.


That's traitor talk.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#29 - 2013-02-17 15:54:19 UTC
I'm curious, is it the people who aren't in 0.0 complaining about SOV or the people in 0.0?

Probably the people not in 0.0.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#30 - 2013-02-17 15:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
Dalmont Delantee wrote:
I'm curious, is it the people who aren't in 0.0 complaining about SOV or the people in 0.0?

Probably the people not in 0.0.



I would guess that those who aren't, have wishful thinking of null for themselves, those who are actually in null just don't give a damn anymore.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Orbital Dyke
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-02-17 16:00:45 UTC
Dalmont Delantee wrote:
I'm curious, is it the people who aren't in 0.0 complaining about SOV or the people in 0.0?

Probably the people not in 0.0.



Neither, its the people who care about the continued success of eve
BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2013-02-17 16:03:36 UTC
First things first, Sov was build to show you own the space and some big alliance owns it.
Next the big topic is more gates, NPC space and shooting your way to own the space which make the PEW PEW.

So end all this we should add few more gates, add cut off NPC space and add new ways to gaining Sov quicker.

24 hours

12 hours

6 hours

turn overs, allowing smaller gangs to take space for few hours.
big gang comes in take the space only to find few hours later space is being taken again.
gains well i'm sure you can think of something....
Pewty McPew
EVE Corporation 2357451
#33 - 2013-02-17 16:14:58 UTC
BEPOHNKA wrote:
First things first, Sov was build to show you own the space and some big alliance owns it.
Next the big topic is more gates, NPC space and shooting your way to own the space which make the PEW PEW.

So end all this we should add few more gates, add cut off NPC space and add new ways to gaining Sov quicker.

24 hours

12 hours

6 hours

turn overs, allowing smaller gangs to take space for few hours.
big gang comes in take the space only to find few hours later space is being taken again.
gains well i'm sure you can think of something....


The changeover rate would be great. Allaince A clears out system X of Corp B and their structurers and claims it as theirs, moves on to system Y 50 jumps away to claim more. Within hours of Alliance A's departure Corp B has structures reanchored and it is back in business again.

Would this encourage more patrols having to respond to threats in minutes/hours? More minor spontaneous combat seems a result of actually having to protect your claimed space in a timely manner instead of having hours/days to muster a fleet to respond.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#34 - 2013-02-17 16:15:41 UTC
I have removed a trolling post from this thread.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2013-02-17 16:21:39 UTC
here is my current topic, please leave feedback. some ideas in their are bit crazy for now just brain storming but mine idea is adding more gates and timers. adding more ideas on ideas here topic.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=202519
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#36 - 2013-02-17 18:42:54 UTC
Orbital Dyke wrote:
Dalmont Delantee wrote:
I'm curious, is it the people who aren't in 0.0 complaining about SOV or the people in 0.0?

Probably the people not in 0.0.



Neither, its the people who care about the continued success of eve


So you think that the face of 0.0 is something that stays the same and _nothing_ will change then?

I think you haven't looked at EVE history at all, there is always something that breaks up major alliances, and this will happen sometime with the current situation.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-02-17 19:41:19 UTC
BEPOHNKA wrote:
First things first, Sov was build to show you own the space and some big alliance owns it.
Next the big topic is more gates, NPC space and shooting your way to own the space which make the PEW PEW.

So end all this we should add few more gates, add cut off NPC space and add new ways to gaining Sov quicker.

24 hours

12 hours

6 hours

turn overs, allowing smaller gangs to take space for few hours.
big gang comes in take the space only to find few hours later space is being taken again.
gains well i'm sure you can think of something....

CCP Geyscale wrote:
•Waking up every morning and having to clean up the mess made while you were asleep is boring
◦See: station ping-pong pre-sov, repairing station services. Having to do something tedious every day before you can actually play the game is not cool

From the DEV blog HERE.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-02-18 00:22:35 UTC
Removing content is pretty much never a good idea, sooo I'm going to say it would be a **** storm with a lot of rage quitting just on that basis.
Andrey Wartooth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-02-18 01:24:21 UTC
Orbital Dyke wrote:
Dalmont Delantee wrote:
I'm curious, is it the people who aren't in 0.0 complaining about SOV or the people in 0.0?

Probably the people not in 0.0.



Neither, its the people who care about the continued success of eve


So if it isn't people who live in null, nor is it people who don't live in null, then nobody is really asking this question.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-02-18 03:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Pewty McPew wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Red Teufel wrote:
my guess ccp is just going to use dust to make it less of a structure grind. however everyone needs to understand back in the day it was only a few thousand players on at a single time. now we get 50k peeps online. there just isn't enough space.


I've traveled through null on more than a few occasions. Null is a desert with Oasis dotted about. Take of look at map statistics for pilots in system. Most of null is dark. There's a lot of space that isn't being utilized other than to have pos's extracting moon goo.


That's kinda why I posed the question. If Sov was removed, and anyone could go/build/claim space/extract goo without the need for Sov or the complication of Sov structures, would the null map remain unchanged? Would smaller alliances now have a chance to establish a foothold in a remote area or would everything collapse into one mega-alliance that covers all of null?

Without Sov you would actually have to defend your space in real-time without timers to protect you. If you haven't got the forces stationed in the system that's under attack, you could very well lose it all in a single battle. Seems bigger alliances would have a more difficult time keeping their borders expanding while still remaining protected. But that's just my opinion.



I've thought about this. The problem isn't Sov. It's force projection. The ability to jump large fleets to the distances that they do is what allows alliances to consolidate the vast areas that they do with little activity in the interim.

Jumping should be "special" case only usage, not the norm, with limitations not only from the ships and modules capable of doing it but, also from some system based criteria to support it. By placing more limitations on cynos and jump bridges you effectively make distances in space longer. You'll notice here I didn't say limitations on distance. Rather, I said limits on the ships capable of doing it, such as numbers they can jump. And I said limits on the space to support it: limit the number of cynos and jumps from an originating system. In effect, it would require more ships capable of it and jump bridges in a wider range of originating spaces. Effectively, it would force null to spread out more, utilize more of their space. They could still have the big fleet battles but, they've have to come from a greater number of originating systems. That would mean having a greater presence in all that empty space in null. And that would mean a greater indirect cost to maintain space, greater vulnerability to fracturing between alliances and a greater chance at conflict.....I suppose.

Don't ban me, bro!