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Best rail guns for frigate/destroyers??
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Mr Joe Joe
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-02-16 17:54:07 UTC
In your opinions what are the best all purpose railguns for smaller ships? I plan to use then initially for PvE missions then onto PvP....any good suggestions?
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#2 - 2013-02-16 17:57:19 UTC
Mr Joe Joe wrote:
In your opinions what are the best all purpose railguns for smaller ships? I plan to use then initially for PvE missions then onto PvP....any good suggestions?


This is a nonsensical question.

There is no "All purpose" railgun. There are different sizes of small railguns with different combinations of fitting cost, range, damage, and tracking, and there are also blasters which are bonused by the same ships. You buy the gun after you figure out what ship you're flying and what you plan to be doing with it.
Almighty Narshe
The Zetetic Elench
#3 - 2013-02-16 18:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Almighty Narshe
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Mr Joe Joe wrote:
In your opinions what are the best all purpose railguns for smaller ships? I plan to use then initially for PvE missions then onto PvP....any good suggestions?


This is a nonsensical question.

There is no "All purpose" railgun. There are different sizes of small railguns with different combinations of fitting cost, range, damage, and tracking, and there are also blasters which are bonused by the same ships. You buy the gun after you figure out what ship you're flying and what you plan to be doing with it.



Sorry that this doesn't seem very helpful, but Kahega is right. Generally the 'best' railgun to fit is the largest one that you have enough CPU and PG for with all your other mods. I've also always found it better to make sure all my guns are the same, because that ensures all your guns have the same range.

EDIT: Also, with regards to PvP vs PvE, the railguns you will use do not change, but the other modules fitted to your ship will change. Although you may want to consider using missiles for PvE. Railguns ARE viable for PvE, but missiles are less fiddly.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#4 - 2013-02-16 18:57:00 UTC
On the subject of railguns, for PvE they're not bad, you can use the range to your advantage by "kiting" the NPC's, by kiting I mean using speed to stay out of your enemies engagement range while plinking away at them from within your engagement range, but their DPS can be lacklustre.

For PvP I believe that blasters are much more common, you lose the range advantage and have to fight up close and personal, so close in fact that you can clean your opponents windows, with antimatter. The amount of damage they push out is ample compensation for the loss of range, in the case of something like a blaster Catalyst the damage can hit in excess of 500 DPS if you're in range, which is facemeltingly good for a destroyer.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#5 - 2013-02-16 19:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Using railguns in PVP is pretty much suicide.

They are low DPS, low alpha weapons with very poor tracking and a fixed damage type. Using rails in PVP you'll find yourself rarely hitting anything and doing bugger all damage when you do hit. There are cases where very large fleets of Rokhs or Nagas with railguns are effective but anything in sufficient numbers used in the right situation can be effective.

In pretty much any engagement if a ship with railguns involved my money is on the other guy, pretty much regardless of what he is in.

You might have some luck with a Merlin, Cormorant and Harpy, but pretty much you'd be better off with blasters.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#6 - 2013-02-16 19:46:06 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Using railguns in PVP is pretty much suicide.

They are low DPS, low alpha weapons with very poor tracking and a fixed damage type. Using rails in PVP you'll find yourself rarely hitting anything and doing bugger all damage when you do hit. There are cases where very large fleets of Rokhs or Nagas with railguns are effective but anything in sufficient numbers used in the right situation can be effective.

In pretty much any engagement if a ship with railguns involved my money is on the other guy, pretty much regardless of what he is in.

You might have some luck with a Merlin, Cormorant and Harpy, but pretty much you'd be better off with blasters.


^^ This tbh, Vimsy, as someone who is a member of a PvP corp is much more qualified to answer than I am, I'm a mainly PvE player.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#7 - 2013-02-16 19:53:17 UTC
Quote:
Using railguns in PVP is pretty much suicide.

They are low DPS, low alpha weapons with very poor tracking and a fixed damage type. Using rails in PVP you'll find yourself rarely hitting anything and doing bugger all damage when you do hit. There are cases where very large fleets of Rokhs or Nagas with railguns are effective but anything in sufficient numbers used in the right situation can be effective.

In pretty much any engagement if a ship with railguns involved my money is on the other guy, pretty much regardless of what he is in.

You might have some luck with a Merlin, Cormorant and Harpy, but pretty much you'd be better off with blasters.


Medium railguns are often pretty mediocre (though that was pre-rebalance, they may be better off on the new ships now). Small railguns see a ton of use on pretty much every hybrid-using hull.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#8 - 2013-02-17 01:29:06 UTC
Even after T2 ammo rebalancing, frigate and cruiser rebalancing and hybrid turret rebalancing railguns are only slightly better than they used to be.

They're fine for PVE or whatever but you'll save yourself a lot of time and lossmails by avoiding using them in PVP.
Revajin
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-02-17 01:56:49 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
On the subject of railguns, for PvE they're not bad, you can use the range to your advantage by "kiting" the NPC's, by kiting I mean using speed to stay out of your enemies engagement range while plinking away at them from within your engagement range, but their DPS can be lacklustre.

For PvP I believe that blasters are much more common, you lose the range advantage and have to fight up close and personal, so close in fact that you can clean your opponents windows, with antimatter. The amount of damage they push out is ample compensation for the loss of range, in the case of something like a blaster Catalyst the damage can hit in excess of 500 DPS if you're in range, which is facemeltingly good for a destroyer.


500? Pfft. 700+ or I don't fly my Catalyst at all.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#10 - 2013-02-17 02:18:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Revajin wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
On the subject of railguns, for PvE they're not bad, you can use the range to your advantage by "kiting" the NPC's, by kiting I mean using speed to stay out of your enemies engagement range while plinking away at them from within your engagement range, but their DPS can be lacklustre.

For PvP I believe that blasters are much more common, you lose the range advantage and have to fight up close and personal, so close in fact that you can clean your opponents windows, with antimatter. The amount of damage they push out is ample compensation for the loss of range, in the case of something like a blaster Catalyst the damage can hit in excess of 500 DPS if you're in range, which is facemeltingly good for a destroyer.


500? Pfft. 700+ or I don't fly my Catalyst at all.


lol true enough, but not everyone has the skills to hit 700 DPS, I myself can only crank about 600 with overheat out of it, at the moment. Bang for buck it's the best destroyer out there though, especially if you're suicide ganking.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#11 - 2013-02-17 10:43:06 UTC
Railguns on the whole are fine and there's a use for them, both in PVE as PVP, the only weak ones are the medium rails. To the OP: what others stated is pretty much right, you fit your ship and then pick the ones that you can still fit and in your case that's probably the 125mm.
MashXX
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-02-17 11:32:10 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Using railguns in PVP is pretty much suicide.

They are low DPS, low alpha weapons with very poor tracking and a fixed damage type. Using rails in PVP you'll find yourself rarely hitting anything and doing bugger all damage when you do hit. There are cases where very large fleets of Rokhs or Nagas with railguns are effective but anything in sufficient numbers used in the right situation can be effective.

In pretty much any engagement if a ship with railguns involved my money is on the other guy, pretty much regardless of what he is in.

You might have some luck with a Merlin, Cormorant and Harpy, but pretty much you'd be better off with blasters.


I disagree, on frigates small rails, particularly 150mm, are very effective when used in combination with kiting, some examples:

http://r1der.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16367552

http://r1der.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16305908

http://r1der.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16280539


That aside, to the OP I'd always fit the largest guns that you can that , as long as they do not limit the fit in other ways. Generally I fit everything else, prop ,tank, ewar etc and then guns last and then make adjustments to the rest of the fit if needed.

The important thing to remember with rails is that the tech 2 railgun ammo is generally not very useful, and therefore there is little point in using tech 2 railguns as the meta 4 version, prototype gauss gun, has the same damage and range but is easier to fit and usually cheaper.



Vincent R'lyeh
Screaming Hayabusa
#13 - 2013-02-17 23:02:11 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Even after T2 ammo rebalancing, frigate and cruiser rebalancing and hybrid turret rebalancing railguns are only slightly better than they used to be.

They're fine for PVE or whatever but you'll save yourself a lot of time and lossmails by avoiding using them in PVP.


Confirming that this 'pvper' has no idea what they are talking about...

I have deliberately developed an air of cynicism that I originally intended to make me appear somewhat louche and caddish but actually comes across as irritable hostility combined with the unspoken threat of sudden violence.....
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2013-02-17 23:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
It's funny to look through killboards and see piles of blown up rail atrons and 1:1 kill to loss ratios.

You're always going to come up against stuff that is just not equipped to deal with certain types of niche ship setups, but pointing out the few examples of where they work isn't a strong argument for their general utility.
MashXX
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-02-18 06:13:19 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
It's funny to look through killboards and see piles of blown up rail atrons and 1:1 kill to loss ratios.

You're always going to come up against stuff that is just not equipped to deal with certain types of niche ship setups, but pointing out the few examples of where they work isn't a strong argument for their general utility.


I linked 3 examples to illustrate the various types of ship that you can counter using railguns, believe me they are very effective, and I could easily have linked many more, but like everything there are ways to counter them.

Every pvp setup has something that is a hard counter to it, and rails are no different, I simply wanted to point out that they do have a use in pvp, contrary to what you and others have said, but they are just one weapon system among many, with their own strengths/weaknesses.