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FW STILL BROKEN?
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#141 - 2013-02-26 01:31:30 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
Sorry but that's just plain wrong. If not for those killboards, the VP totals for every day would look very different. Don't you get that?


I don't think that is the case. The only evidence we have is that the people who are effecting sov the most don't pvp at all.



Princess Nexxala wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Don't you know Princess, killboards, have almost nothing to do with vp. If you want to see how to win the sov war link the top vp gainers for the day and look at their killboards for that day. My killboard has as much to do with fw sov, as those killboards and I am not even in fw.
And no, that's how you win the "I got more LP then you war", it has very little to do with sov. Do you think a system being on the edge of vulnerable for 5 weeks, being farmed down to 95% then back to 110% (or whatever the max is) every single day has anything at all to do with sov?



I think you are confusing lp and vp. No one is talking about lp. The data I posted was not top lp winners. It was VP winners. Posting who got the most vp is very much posting who had the largest effect on overall sov.


You are just happy you can dock in your base system. If your biggest vision of how good fw sov can be is planting alts to defensive plex your system (or getting a blob to chase out farmers) so you can dock in one or 2 systems, then that is pretty sad. Seriously the sov war in faction war could be so much better.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#142 - 2013-02-26 02:21:02 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Cearain wrote:
I don't think that is the case. The only evidence we have is that the people who are effecting sov the most don't pvp at all....
...WHERE NOBODY LIVES.
Lin Suizei
#143 - 2013-02-26 04:14:26 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I don't think that is the case. The only evidence we have is that the people who are effecting sov the most don't pvp at all....
...WHERE NOBODY LIVES.


Where you do not live, but a lot of unaligned players do, and see the extent of this issue every day.

I take it you're more for a player-based solution to the alt-farming scourge, and I think this is a good idea given the nature of EVE - however, I think it's fair to say that the mechanics greatly favor the plex farmer in this situation, in the same way (and on the same scale) that dropping and reforming corp greatly favors the defenders in a highsec war.

Surely, a fix to make a mechanism (FW plexes), designed to encourage PvP, actually reward successful PvP instead of rewarding cloaking and warp stabs, would be a positive change?

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#144 - 2013-02-26 05:38:19 UTC
Lin Suizei wrote:
blah blah blah..
Apparently timer rollback is on the "to do" list. That'll push the odds more towards plexing griefers in pvp ships. So let's quit whining about this topic until that feature is implemented, ok?
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#145 - 2013-02-26 09:06:46 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
...WHERE NOBODY LIVES.

It is not feasible or even wise to spread out all over the place (unless you live in the mountains of Afghanistan), but yeah. HQ systems, even for small/middling corps require an attacker to not only mount guns but use them indiscriminately if he wants to make headway in those systems.
X Gallentius wrote:
Apparently timer rollback is on the "to do" list. That'll push the odds more towards plexing griefers in pvp ships. So let's quit whining about this topic until that feature is implemented, ok?

With CCP's track record on FW iterations? You mad?

Unless we manage to give them an appropriate sense of the importance, not just urgency, of the change you can be damned sure it will be launched with a slew of bugs in its wake .. only way to be sure is to make them fear for the repercussions so that they do the work proper before it goes live Big smile
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#146 - 2013-02-26 15:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Nexxala
LOL! You just don't get it. Oh well, most other people do.

Cearain wrote:


I don't think that is the case. The only evidence we have is that the people who are effecting sov the most don't pvp at all.



Sorry, but I do know the difference between VP and LP. My point was as clear as it could be and yet you ignored it again. Oh well, no sense talking to people like you. Good luck with this. Hopefully no one @ CCP takes anything you say seriously. It's rubbish after all. Your arguments are uninformed and purely conjecture based on the only statistics available to you. Sad, really Cry

Cearain wrote:

I think you are confusing lp and vp. No one is talking about lp. The data I posted was not top lp winners. It was VP winners. Posting who got the most vp is very much posting who had the largest effect on overall sov.


You are just happy you can dock in your base system. If your biggest vision of how good fw sov can be is planting alts to defensive plex your system (or getting a blob to chase out farmers) so you can dock in one or 2 systems, then that is pretty sad. Seriously the sov war in faction war could be so much better.


Nope, wrong again smart guy Oops

Cearain wrote:

You are just happy you can dock in your base system. If your biggest vision of how good fw sov can be is planting alts to defensive plex your system (or getting a blob to chase out farmers) so you can dock in one or 2 systems, then that is pretty sad. Seriously the sov war in faction war could be so much better.

nom nom
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#147 - 2013-02-26 17:24:18 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I don't think that is the case. The only evidence we have is that the people who are effecting sov the most don't pvp at all....
...WHERE NOBODY LIVES.


So you agree that 90% of faction war sov is a carebear race.

But even your claim for the 10% was proven false. You listed some of these "important systems" and I gave you a slew of killmails of alts in stabbed ships in one of those systems.

Even the home systems are being held by stabbed alts.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#148 - 2013-02-26 17:34:24 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
LOL! You just don't get it. Oh well, most other people do.


Most people don't care about fw sov at all. Why should they? Its a silly carebear race.

Princess Nexxala wrote:
Cearain wrote:


I don't think that is the case. The only evidence we have is that the people who are effecting sov the most don't pvp at all.



Sorry, but I do know the difference between VP and LP..


Then you were intentionally misrepresenting the data I posted?



Princess Nexxala wrote:


My point was as clear as it could be and yet you ignored it again. Oh well, no sense talking to people like you. Good luck with this. Hopefully no one @ CCP takes anything you say seriously. It's rubbish after all. Your arguments are uninformed and purely conjecture based on the only statistics available to you. Sad, really Cry..


Right why would ccp listen to someone who actually gives the data to support what he says?

Want to capture the most plexes for your militia?

1)You can either check out the fits of those who are gettting the most vp.

Or

2) You can listen to the chest thumping gallente players who claim that their medal was pvp yet never offer any evidence of this and ignore all the evidence to the contrary.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#149 - 2013-02-26 17:39:39 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Lin Suizei wrote:
blah blah blah..
Apparently timer rollback is on the "to do" list. That'll push the odds more towards plexing griefers in pvp ships. So let's quit whining about this topic until that feature is implemented, ok?



I love that when someone says this:
Lin Suizei wrote:

Surely, a fix to make a mechanism (FW plexes), designed to encourage PvP, actually reward successful PvP instead of rewarding cloaking and warp stabs, would be a positive change?



You only hear "blah blah blah..." Yeah you gallente are right.

Everyone just loves the farmville that is faction war except me. You guys are very effective at blocking out any opposing views. The words dont' even register. You just rage rage rage against anyone who sees shortcomings in the sov mechanics that brought you your precious medal.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#150 - 2013-02-26 17:43:01 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Cearain wrote:
Right why would ccp listen to someone who actually gives the data to support what he says?

Want to capture the most plexes for your militia?

1)You can either check out the fits of those who are gettting the most vp.

Or

2) You can listen to the chest thumping gallente players who claim that their medal was pvp yet never offer any evidence of this and ignore all the evidence to the contrary.



The point was that you can contribute by killing people on the opposing side, preventing them from getting VP until they reship. Which is generally worth at least a plex or two of VP. Plexing is a zero sum game.

As far as 2) is concerned - we had to kick the opposing militia out of every home system in fw lowsec to get that medal. That was the difficult pvp part, fighting people where they lived. That was the part that to date has not been achieved by any other militia.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#151 - 2013-02-26 17:43:36 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Everyone just loves the farmville that is faction war except me.

JustK will pass 2100 kills this month - almost all from fighting the Occupancy War. What was that about farmville again?
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2013-02-26 18:02:16 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I don't think that is the case. The only evidence we have is that the people who are effecting sov the most don't pvp at all....
...WHERE NOBODY LIVES.


So you agree that 90% of faction war sov is a carebear race.

But even your claim for the 10% was proven false. You listed some of these "important systems" and I gave you a slew of killmails of alts in stabbed ships in one of those systems.

Even the home systems are being held by stabbed alts.


Stabbed alts that can only operate safely because their mains are protecting the system. The only way farmers could take a home system is if the corp that lives there stopped logging in entirely.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#153 - 2013-02-26 19:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Nexxala
No, but I guess you didn't know that you get LP from closing a plex as well as VP? Thought you at least had that level of knowledge, my bad for assuming that. Farmers plex for LP, since they can use it to make isk. Here is the wiki info so you can brush up on how it all works http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Factional_Warfare.

Cearain wrote:

Then you were intentionally misrepresenting the data I posted?


You did no such thing, you misrepresented raw data to fabricate a point. Farming isn't really an issue except for folks like you that want to make it an issue. Your point is irrelevant. Not really sure why you go on and on about it.

Cearain wrote:


Right why would ccp listen to someone who actually gives the data to support what he says?

Want to capture the most plexes for your militia?

1)You can either check out the fits of those who are gettting the most vp.

Or

2) You can listen to the chest thumping gallente players who claim that their medal was pvp yet never offer any evidence of this and ignore all the evidence to the contrary.



Who cares what they fit? Or who they are even? They have very little effect on warzone control besides creating lots of killmails (i.e. content)

I will dumb this down a bit for you;

Farmer A spends and evening running plexes in a system. He takes the system from 95% contested all the way to Vulnerable + overhead. Farmer A logs off. The next day he is top VP for his side since he spent 7 hours running plexes non stop. Before Farmer A logs on the next day, a corp on the other side brings the system in question back down to 95% "doing their part for the war effort" etc. As this wasn't all done by one person VP is spread out among several players. Farmer A logs back on and to his delight the system is ripe for the harvest again and he repeats his actions from the day before.

This scenario happens everyday across the warzone and did Farmer A have ANY affect on sov? Nope

nom nom
Ginger Barbarella
#154 - 2013-02-26 19:23:14 UTC
So, Cereain and Nexxala, whose is bigger after that display?

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#155 - 2013-02-26 19:39:01 UTC
IDK, I am in Nisuwa and the end is somewhere around OMS last I checked.

Ginger Barbarella wrote:
So, Cereain and Nexxala, whose is bigger after that display?

nom nom
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#156 - 2013-02-26 19:47:40 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
IDK, I am in Nisuwa and the end is somewhere around OMS last I checked.

Ginger Barbarella wrote:
So, Cereain and Nexxala, whose is bigger after that display?



TiDi goes into effect when Nexx enters a Constellation.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#157 - 2013-02-26 20:42:19 UTC
Dread has entered thread. Time for CCP to put a lock on it!
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#158 - 2013-02-26 20:56:29 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Dread has entered thread. Time for CCP to put a lock on it!


No kidding! I don't think I say anything particualarly bad either.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#159 - 2013-02-26 21:36:23 UTC
You are the Damar Rocarion of our generation.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#160 - 2013-02-26 21:49:01 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
You are the Damar Rocarion of our generation.


He also stole my jacket!