Ships & Modules

You forgot to include the mechanic skill under armor.

Also it's worth noting that 3 of the shield skills have functions that aren't replicated with armor mechanics and skills. For instance passive shield regen rate, fitting cost of certain mods and cap/HP efficiency are things which shield tankers can modify through skills, while armor takers cannot do the latter 2 and the former doesn't apply at all.

Lastly shield T2 mods seem to have fewer lvl 5 skill prerequisites than armor mods as a whole.

The training may be longer to complete but provides a greater range of utility over armor skills helping balance the 2.

Honestly these armour vs shield threads are becoming tiring. We see the same one-sided arguments recycled over and over again. Every time it's a new person, and every time they think they're really clever and its a completely new idea.



He also forgot Hull Upgrades under shield tanking. Damage Controls work quite well for shield tanks as well. And as long as we're talking about crossover skills, you can go ahead and add Mechanics to shields, and Shield Management/operation to armour tanking, since they all apply. Armour tanked ships have shields and shield tanked ships have hull and armour too, an extra few % can determine a fight.

Not to worry about those extra skills that shields have, we'll be getting some new armour skills real soon. A new skill to reduce the drawback of plates. I will be awaiting the shield skill to reduce the sig bloom of extenders. Armour already gets some stuff that shields don't. Repair Systems reduces the cycle time of reps, there is no shield equivalent. All four of the armour compensation skills are useful as well, the shield versions are all set to become mostly useless in the next patch (tonight?)

This may come as somewhat of a surprise to you, but both tanking methods are viable. Shields are better at active tanking, and armour is better at buffer tanking. How is this still news to anyone?



Um, it uses less capacitor per unit of repaired armour than shield boosters do? Cos, y'know that's kinda what efficiency is all about?

Neat trick given the fact the Incursus is faster than the Merlin.

-Liang

Ed: This kinda gets back to what I've been saying. The rig changes are a really big deal. Way bigger than anyone gives them credit for.

What's wrong with the type of charges? They're small and compact.

-Liang

I want to say there is a solution to all changes in eve that I learned a long time ago. If you want to keep your edge then you need to train all races. I started training multiple races after the huge missile nerf bat around 2006.

If you fly cruisers train for all the race cruisers ect.

Then you have it all ;-P

and cost a small fortune. maybe not a problem for multi-billionaire. but i'm new to pvp so if i use this module i'll go broke very very quickly from losing ships with paste in them. look at the cost of this vs the cost of the caps used by the asb.

I can understand people defending the concept of this module, even thinking OPs like the one here are going way overboard into silliness.....but anyone arguing that this module isn't worse in every way to an asb is just trying to be contentious for the sake of wanting to argue. Any logical objective view of this module has to realize something isn't quite right with it and needs adjustment.

Two things:
- The XL ASB cost almost 2.5 million ISK to reload when it was released.
- Everyone said the ASB was 100% useless when it was released because of the reload time.
- The cost of nanite repair paste will go down over time when the speculation bubble eases up.
- There is no requirement for equivalency between the AAR and ASB.
- There is no requirement for equivalency between armor and shield tanking.
- We haven't given the new armor tanking changes (all of them, not just AAR) enough of a shake for people to develop a meta.

-Liang

Ok then throw a rig of your choice in on the shield side.

And, of course, we have not yet factored in the fitting costs of the above modules to the typical fitting space on the relevant ships.

With the rig added it's 2.3 units repped/cap (so only ~1.7% better cap efficiency) . That's only just barely better than the shield booster and requires a third slot. Tossing in a cap rig for shields brings it up to 2.5 reps/cap, which is still better.

The armor reps bring in 163.5 hp/s, and the shield booster brings in 163.2, despite the armor rig being for repping power and the shield one being for cap use only.

Not that I'm advocating the use of cap rigs on shields, but it's still worth noting that 2 LARs + a rig give 1.7% better cap efficiency and 0.2% increased repping power over a XLSB + a SBA, whereas pretty much any of the shield rigs will give you more bang for your buck if you're trying to keep the slots even.
I don't think we're using the same numbers here.

You are comparing an EXTRA large module against a large. (Hint: try using large modules, not extra large)
You are comparing base stats. (Hint: you need to factor in skills)
You are comparing a handful of modules and complaining that things are out of balance (Hint: What about resists? What about speed and sig radius?)

Are we doing this again? Because it was dumb the first time too.

Try your numbers again using a LARGE SB + SBA vs 2x LARs and some actual skill points. And then try to realise that 3 modules are not the entirety of balance.

Then, here's some more things you need to think about:
You cannot just take tank into account. How much more damage does the ship with less tank get? Is it more vulnerable to being neuted? Is it faster or slower? Do it's guns need to be reloaded. Is its damage restricted to one or two damage types only? Can you reduce its damage to almost nothing through manual piloting? Does it have less tank/second but higher resistances, making it a better remote rep gang member?

There are so many things you need to factor in when talking about this, that I find anyone trying to tell me that it is unbalanced or unfair to be extremely arrogant. Did you think about all of that above? What about the bits I didn't type out? What happens when you take officer or deadspace mods into account?