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AAR = Devs Completely Shield Biased
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Lashenadeeka
Qinglong Fleet
Jade Kirin Alliance
#41 - 2013-02-17 17:29:46 UTC
This seems as good a place as any to post this:

http://i.imgur.com/RoF5Aj4.jpg
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-02-17 23:43:06 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
This seems as good a place as any to post this:

http://i.imgur.com/RoF5Aj4.jpg



Didn't recognized the signature, it's Rembrant or Picasso? Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-02-18 00:38:33 UTC
If it bothers you that much train for Shield Tanking.
The 2 systems are completely different from more than 1 perspective.

Armour Tanking is more Capacitor efficient.
Base values for Armour are higher than they are for Shields
Armour Tanking gets a Passive Omni-Resistance Module, Shield Tanking gets an Active Omni-Resistance Module

Finally Armour Tanking requires less SP.

Armour Tanking Skills
Repair Systems (R1)
Hull Upgrades (R2)
Armour Resistance Phasing (R3)
4x [xyz] Armour Compensation (R2)

Total Ranks - 14 (3,584,000 Skill Points)

Shield Tanking Skills
Shield Compensation (R2)
Shield Management (R3)
Shield Operation (R1)
Shield Upgrades (R2)
Tactical Shield Manipulation (R4)
4x [xyz] Shield Compensation (R2)

Total Skill Ranks - 20 (5,120,000 Skill Points)
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#44 - 2013-02-18 01:12:39 UTC
CCP totally hate armor they plan to remove it completely by the end of the year..op i hope u feel better.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#45 - 2013-02-18 03:40:24 UTC
To mare wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
My one and only issue with the new Ancillary Armor Reppers is they will massively drive up demand for what is currently a somewhat uncommonly traded commodity. Nanite, which is already somewhat expensive, is going to become much more so very soon.


You're assuming ppl will start using AARs. Why?Roll

because they are damn good especially with the other changes made to rigs and fitting requirements, still dont see the problem of seeing nanite paste price going to the roof


I'm guessing probably because you're planning to sell nanite instead of using it.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#46 - 2013-02-18 11:23:56 UTC
Lashenadeeka wrote:
This seems as good a place as any to post this:

http://i.imgur.com/RoF5Aj4.jpg

This is good stuff ! What is "AR A" ?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-02-18 15:57:23 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
If it bothers you that much train for Shield Tanking.
The 2 systems are completely different from more than 1 perspective.

Armour Tanking is more Capacitor efficient.
Base values for Armour are higher than they are for Shields
Armour Tanking gets a Passive Omni-Resistance Module, Shield Tanking gets an Active Omni-Resistance Module

Finally Armour Tanking requires less SP.

Armour Tanking Skills
Repair Systems (R1)
Hull Upgrades (R2)
Armour Resistance Phasing (R3)
4x [xyz] Armour Compensation (R2)

Total Ranks - 14 (3,584,000 Skill Points)

Shield Tanking Skills
Shield Compensation (R2)
Shield Management (R3)
Shield Operation (R1)
Shield Upgrades (R2)
Tactical Shield Manipulation (R4)
4x [xyz] Shield Compensation (R2)

Total Skill Ranks - 20 (5,120,000 Skill Points)


Tip 1

Train new character from scratch for Tengu with strategic skill 4 subs 5 support missile 5 HAMs and HMs spec 4
Tanking skills 5 if you get the feeling to passive tank your Tengu

Tip 2

Train another new character from scratch for Proteus with strategic skill 4 subs 5 support gunnery 5 Medium rails&blasters 4, tanking skills 5

Both intended for DPS roles, forget drones in both cases or your Proteus plan will skyrocket.

What happened in your Evemon plan?

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-02-18 19:19:12 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Lashenadeeka wrote:
This seems as good a place as any to post this:

http://i.imgur.com/RoF5Aj4.jpg

This is good stuff ! What is "AR A" ?


I assumed it was a dead space A type rep.

I was trying to do something similar to compare against ASB may post it if I am sure it is right.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#49 - 2013-02-18 21:03:48 UTC
It's more of a comparison between a VTOL and a regular helicopter, they both get the job done, but the vtol.is better in pretty much every way (besides armor passive tank) all that needs to happen is to remove the capacitor requirements for the AAR, make both vulnerable or immune to neuting, and a hard cap on how many can be fir for both or removed.

Simply as that.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#50 - 2013-02-18 21:58:47 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
It's more of a comparison between a VTOL and a regular helicopter, they both get the job done, but the vtol.is better in pretty much every way (besides armor passive tank) all that needs to happen is to remove the capacitor requirements for the AAR, make both vulnerable or immune to neuting, and a hard cap on how many can be fir for both or removed.

Simply as that.

We don't need more neutra immune ships.

And armor ships can still use their mid slots. People not considering this as something useful is more related to EWAR being weak on unbonused ships than armor being bad in itself.
Clara Stewart
Stewart Collections
#51 - 2013-02-18 22:17:48 UTC
Armor and Shield both have there own benefits and disadvantages and they always will, players will always argue 1 is better than the other.
The real inbalance in Eve is Hull tanking for reasons-

Only 1 resist module (damage control)

We have no extender or plates to fit as such just the Reinforced bulkheads this module only really works well on larger ships even then it has a stacking bonus and kills your ships speed.

The repair modules have painful fitting requirments, slow cycle/rep amounts and they eat capacitor.

No Rigs

So you lot stop complaining and lets look at fixing Hull tanking please.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-02-18 22:17:57 UTC
Marcus Gideon wrote:
Call me crazy, but I'm kinda getting the impression that CCP Devs really hate Armor.


You're crazy.

Quote:
Like... really... hate... armor...


Really... crazy.

Quote:
First off, whose idea was it to burn Paste? A rather rare and valuable Farmville Planetary Interaction commodity.


People asked for it. There were at least three threads in Features & Ideas Discussion before the devs announced the change.

Quote:
Then add in the continued Cap draw. Justified as "we don't want armor tanking to be like shields"

And tack on "limited to one" just for extra oomph. Justified as "we saw how powerful that made ASBs, and rather than go fix ASB, we're going to pre-nerf AABs"


Active armor tanking is already highly cap efficient, so removing cap would be kinda redundant. However, what armor tanking lacks is burst repair - and that's exactly what AAB's purpose is.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-02-18 23:20:58 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Tip 1

pointless drivel post #1
Tip 2

pointless drivel post #2



whut ???






n.b.
and yes, i paraphrased your post.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-02-18 23:24:35 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Tip 1

pointless drivel post #1
Tip 2

pointless drivel post #2



whut ???






n.b.
and yes, i paraphrased your post.



You won GD, you made my evening. Thx Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-02-18 23:27:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
However, what armor tanking lacks is burst repair - and that's exactly what AAB's purpose is.


That AAR needs to be coupled with a regular AR to offer the burst you need. 2 low slots +1mid for mandatory cap injector vs1 mid, it's huge trade off for little/none advantage (double lol rep) and completely nullified when you get to start talking about double ABS fits.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#56 - 2013-02-18 23:29:38 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
However, what armor tanking lacks is burst repair - and that's exactly what AAB's purpose is.


That AAR needs to be coupled with a regular AR to offer the burst you need. 2 low slots +1mid for mandatory cap injector vs1 mid, it's huge trade off for little/none advantage (double lol rep) and completely nullified when you get to start talking about double ABS fits.


Dual rep + Cap Booster doesn't tend to require 1-4 fitting mods as dual ASB does. Dual ASB also plays merry hell with your ewar and tackle. I think it's far too early to be doomsaying regarding armor vs shield.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#57 - 2013-02-19 01:51:17 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
It's more of a comparison between a VTOL and a regular helicopter, they both get the job done, but the vtol.is better in pretty much every way (besides armor passive tank) all that needs to happen is to remove the capacitor requirements for the AAR, make both vulnerable or immune to neuting, and a hard cap on how many can be fir for both or removed.

Simply as that.

We don't need more neutra immune ships.

And armor ships can still use their mid slots. People not considering this as something useful is more related to EWAR being weak on unbonused ships than armor being bad in itself.

So we don't need more ewar immune ships but ASBs shouldn't be made cap vulnerable?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Ctzn Snips
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-02-19 02:57:31 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
[quote=Caitlyn Tufy]However, what armor tanking lacks is burst repair - and that's exactly what AAB's purpose is.

Dual ASB also plays merry hell with your ewar and tackle. I think it's far too early to be doomsaying regarding armor vs shield.

-Liang


Good thing upping the size and using only one is a completely viable option when it doesn't cost any cap. And ships designed for using shields aren't exactly lacking in mid slots.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#59 - 2013-02-19 03:08:44 UTC
Ctzn Snips wrote:
Good thing upping the size and using only one is a completely viable option when it doesn't cost any cap. And ships designed for using shields aren't exactly lacking in mid slots.


So.... dual rep incursus (SAAR, SAR) vs Merlin (MASB). Who wins?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#60 - 2013-02-19 03:48:32 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Ctzn Snips wrote:
Good thing upping the size and using only one is a completely viable option when it doesn't cost any cap. And ships designed for using shields aren't exactly lacking in mid slots.


So.... dual rep incursus (SAAR, SAR) vs Merlin (MASB). Who wins?

-Liang


Merlin as he just walks away if he can't mitigate the incursus' damage through range control.


hmm....I might actually start flying a dual rep incursus with a web rather than scram hmmm...

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.