Ships & Modules

It's getting better? -yes

Is this what armor tanking was in need? - more lol mods and skills to train = no

Before even introducing AARs old modules should have been balanced correctly: frigates/destroyers balance=small mods balance and so on so forth.
Then add new modules to offer more options? -yes but those should not be mandatory, this is the problem I have with this current armor balancing method.

I think he means the honeycombing skill which reduces mass of plates, pretty much going to be a must have skill.

that I can agree.

LOL

If you didn't get the sarcasm in my post you need to train your reading empathy skill to lvl 5 mate.



And if you think a single SAR incursus is an example of unbalanced armour tanking in small ships Then I suggest you have neither fought of flown them!

Armour tanking is fine and is getting better. Especially for medium/small ship classes. I generall don't comment on bigger classes cos I don't fly them often and real DGAF about them either.

Seriously just leave for even suggesting anything about 'duels' CCP just remade the can flip mechanic to siut crimewatch. I never mentioned 1v1 or any such crap. I rarely get them and often end up outgunned.

So far I've seen 2 pages of weak arguments trying to say "Hey, don't bash on Armor tanking. It's good already... I mean, it's not Shield Tanking, but it's getting better"

So far, few have addressed my initial complaints (other than saying I should just get over it and quit whining)

- Shield ships can fit SEVERAL ASB, while Armor ships will be hard locked to using just 1 AAB. Again, CCP admits multiple ASB made shields very powerful. But rather than go back and hard lock ASB, they just pre-nerf AAB.

- Shield ASB are Capless, for no particular reason. Ordinary Shields Boosters aren't Capless, but they made a special exception. Ordinary Armor Reppers aren't Capless either, and CCP decided to "stick to their guns" in that regard.

- Shield ASB burn charges that cost as little as 400 ISK each. Armor AAB burn charges that cost 30,000 ISK each. I just went back and updated the OP, since I didn't factor the Paste costs right before. Maybe if people take a look at how expensive it is to run an AAB compared to an ASB...

I'm not sure if we're both playing the same video game, since you are going on about motorcycles and cars...

My game has spaceships...

And in it, those spaceships are already Shield biased, what with passive regen on everything.

Then you could say "Hey, I want faster Shield regen. So I'm going to go active tanked, burn Cap, and try to keep my shields going before my batteries run dry."

Only now, you can "active" tank passively. So triple ASB ships can be neuted all day long, and never suffer a loss in tank.

Or if you're feeling spunky about it, you could toss an ASB into your already passively tanked ship, and you have a fallback iWin button to refill your shields if they happen to get overwhelmed.

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Now, you look at "passive" armor tanking, otherwise known as the waiting game. Who will run out of HP first?

So you say "Screw this, I want some sort of Armor regen. So I'm going to go active tanked, burn Cap, and try to keep my armor intact before my batteries run dry."

Only now... no wait, we don't get the passive shortcut. And we can't triple fit AAB, even if we were so inclined.

So if you're feeling spunky, and wanna toss an AAB in with several other run-of-the-mill reppers, you're still going to be burning through millions of ISK worth of Paste, and also expending tons of Cap Charges just like the ASB would. Only now you're sharing those Cap Charges to rep, guns, EW...

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You are absolutely right however... Armor tanking =/= Shield tanking. And that's my point...

Cap carges v nanite paste

CCP has already stated it will be looking at the requirements to manufacture it in relation to the supply/demand as time goes on.

paste has been a very limited use item in game and these changes may well increase it use a fair bit thus increasing the demand and people will make it. If it becomes a prohibitive maufactureing process then CCP will address that.

Really don't see why this is an argument for or against AAR tbh. Most pvp'er regularly carry lots around with them anyways. The same and cap heavy fits and charges. except that countering the cost is the much smaller cargo requirements to carry paste.

6 and 2 3's as far as I'm concerned and not a valid argument either way.

I like oompa loompas don't you dare neut my oompa loompas you cruel evil man you!

I won't comment on lvl 5's or such as pretty much the only pve content I've been involved in in the last 18months is exploration or FW button spinning.

True the AAR is still a cap dependent machanic but I think you may be looking at it the wrong way.

ASB is a silly high tank for a silly short time. Dependent on multi fits and large cargo items to make any form of sustainable (really for only a slightly longer time than before really) This also pretty much gimps the fits for combat variance and completely puts it in the tank/spank mode.

AAR give the armour tanker the option of using a module to give a bigger burst tank than the regular reppers but at a cost of nanite etc. I feel the AAR is something that you will fit on your current armour fit ships and not need to fit specifically around them.

I personally think that armour tanking is fine the way it was/is (some of the module penalties are directed at the wrong attribute imo i.e speed rather than agility). But I'm glad some of the penalties are changing. The big thing is the metagame that changes. I remember when if you didn't fly ahac you were pretty much excluded from a lot of fleets.

I feel that tanking in general doesn't scale well and the bigger you go the more tankingis unbalanced. But this may just be me as my experiance in the larger ships is very limited.

I think the bigger things for active armour tanking is the penalty changes and the AAR is kind like a new toy like you said. I like the new toy, it fits with the lore and also give the active armour tanker another option. I don't think active armour tanking will become FOTM with this like ASB's did.

Amusingly, I was in favor of it being switched to nanite expressly because I knew it to be more expensive. It acts as a great boost to PI. :)

-Liang

Every ship should be equal. Every module. It's absolutely reasonable to think that null should hit the same distance as barrage.. and both do the same dmg.. with perfectly equal and inline dps curves that mirror scorch.

Tracking disrupt never-miss missiles. It's not fair.. logic need not apply.

Why does the belli have an extra high over a cele.. they both T1 ewar cruisers. It's not fair the cele has an extra low. Ruppie is minus a gun over the other 3 equivilants.. it's not fair its forced to a utlity high. That's not balanced.

Why do some non-droneboats have significantly greater dronebays and/or bandwidth than their equivilant counter parts. Something should be done about this. It's not fair or balanced.

DCU gives armor 15%, but shield 12.5%.. making each rep point worth more. This also gives remote repping armor an advantage over shield from that module. That's not fair.. or balanced. Not too mention.. both armor classes have better structure, again.. making the legendary DCU favor the mostly armor-favorable ships. And that extra structure ehp could result in more rep pulses, more remote pulses as well. But we should ignore that.. or even better, make it fair and balanced.

Their shouldn't be black n white, only one color. I'll be damned if CCP makes me jump on the FOTM bandwagon, just because of what other's say. I'm a complete tool, and a drone to what other people say rather than my own experinces fueled by own ideals.. I need the forums to dictate and tell me what is right or wrong, and fit accordingly.

I too.. wish to be a mindless lemming. My EVE experince made easier by having every choice, be the only choice, and thus.. always the right choice. I can't handle being wrong. No one can make fun of me for fitting an armor tank over a shield tank.. cause they both heal at the same rate per second.. so it doesn't matter.

I'm going to happily dry-hump the air when CCP takes all the decision making out of my hands.. and simply makes everything the same as everything else.

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In all seriousness.. god forbid CCP devs listen to some of you people. Here's a nugget of truth.. You know what kills MMOs? Not so much the company.. but the whining drones of lemming ezmoders that want the Golden Key of Excellence handed to them on a silver platter.

What's about to happen to armor tanking ships in general is MASSIVE.. there is a subtle breeze about to hit like an F5 tornado, and I'm sorry.. but I'm amazed how many of you are too stupid to realize it.