Player Features and Ideas Discussion

i can name several reasons training implants benefit the game, if that's what you want, but it appears not to be; it appears that you just want a bunch of people patting you on the back and telling you youre a "good girl" for coming up with such a brilliant idea . . .

when you quit whining and start making coherent, non rage, non whine posts perhaps we can discuss why training implants should or should not stay

Name single benefit. Name it. (Just in case you come with something stupid i said before i'm ok with skill hardwiring and slaves etc).
So name benefit for attribute implant. Come on , you are big boy not scared of internet right ? You said something now defend it.

When you will read posts before responding to them stupidly i will start to treat you better too.

Thanks that you at least post in mannered fashion. I do actually agree with things you said ... almost ...but seems like you also did not read my posts. I don't blame . I did write a lot , A LOT. So basicaly you are missing point where i said that i will cease to use expensive implants as i will move to low sec. Because i will , i want to pve and pvp in low sec. The point is not about accumulating SP - it's about getting esential skills at reasonable level (like ~~4). I already said i would be fine without implants if i had skills i want. It's not like i need to pilot Dreads, Titans and Jump Freighters and at same time be good at invention etc. It's just that implants especially early game help you get mandatory skills at reasonable level in reasonable time.

I will stop using expensive implants and will just use faction implants that boost my pvp performance if i will be able to afford them / need them. I don't think it's fair that i need to give up on faster trainings just to pvp :<<. Not fair at all. Tho i will unfortunatelly. I started this game with pvp in mind and exploration not just in high sec. So i kinda will move to place where it's not wise to sit with +4/+5. Too bad because i already will pay with my ships/clones. No need for implants, not at all.

So basicaly what i want to say is that : just because someone wants to train as effectively as high sec carebear shouldn't prevent him from pvping WHENEVER(not when jc is avaible)he wants without tremendous penalty, many many times bigger than cost of lost ship.

Edit. "It's sandbox" - and sandbox can live without attribute implants and attributes from faction implants ;). I repeat keep slaves, hardwirings.(just in case someone thinks i have something against those things - no i don't).
I simply completly CBA about JC and grinding mindlessly standing to use it. I won't. What i will i will do in same body . I should be able to... without penalty.

My arrogance doesn't rise to the idea that I know all the ramifications of removing attribute bumps from implants, but it's not as if I can't make any predictions. But let's get off the topic of removing attribute bumps from implants and get back to the original topic.

The 24H timer is clearly designed to prevent something, but as I've stated I believe it has side effects -- specifically creating fiction for some for getting into PvP. So if there are un-planned for side effects to something perhaps we should try something else. To resist change for the purpose of resisting change isn't particularly useful, though I imagine the more conservative people will disagree. So perhaps we can make it so the further you go the longer the delay is so that in the same night I can switch between the skill/industry implants and the light-weight PvP implants.

I believe I've made a case here for some small amount of develop time to address this, though it will go to the back of a very long list and certainly the developers may not feel I've made a case or feel like I missed something in analysis. Either way, reduced jump clone time is something I think is worth the effort.

Lag fight != session change lag spike for single player when everyone else dont lag.

How is it OP? By cloak i meant similar to after-gate-jump cloaking. So when you start to move - it fades. Also 3s isnt much.

if it means that much to u, then they are doing their intended job. if that keeps u out of PvP then that is a self imposed restriction. its not the fault of the implants. As for getting rid of implants and giving everyone +5 attributes encouraging more PvP, u may be right, but so would having every ship u lose replaced for free. with free, un losable ships a lot more ppl would PvP.

what makes eve PvP so exciting is the sense of loss, and the loss of ur expensive implants is part of that.

A couple of things, and I am trying to address comments from two of your posts, so I will try and not make it confusing.



It is. The main thing however is to keep with EVE's general theme of consequences. It is similar to a character transfer. Character transfers cost either 2 plex or $25. Now character transfer is really cool. I can't think of any other games that had this feature. But when you read CCP's reason for why they charge, it is to limit character transfers. I just moved an alt to another account so I could reactivate his training without pausing this character. But I really had to think about whether it was going to be worth 2 PLEX to do so.

Jump clones did not always exist in the game, so people REALLY had to decide what implants to use. When you decide to switch clones there is a consequence in that you are commited to that clone for a period of time. That is overall good for the game and I support that. Personally I would love to see a reduction slightly so that you aren't required to wait essentially until after a downtime. But going as low as 2 to four hours would have dramatic impacts to the game.

Keep in mind that in addition to utilizing new implants, jump clones are essentially a way to travel as well. You can leave a JC in far off 0.0 space and be able to jump to HS in a blink of an eye. Allowing people to do that every 2 or 4 hours can exacserbate the already problematic issues of force projection this game has via jump bridges and titan bridges.



I'm sorry but this is a largely bogus argument. While I am sure there are players that physcially are unable to log in all of the time (travel, lack of connectivity) by in large the bulk I am sure have the ability, even if they may not actually play every day. By your example if a person only gets a chance to log in once a week they are going to have more problems than just their implants. That is unless they only have skills that last longer than a week to train, because they will have empty skill queues all the time.

You may not play every day. But I'm willing to bet when EVEMON tells you your queue is under 24 hours remaining you can find 30 seconds to log in and add some skills right? If you can log in for 30 sec to update your queue, you can log in for 30 seconds and clone jump back.

And you are backwards in your thinking. You are not taking a penalty when this occurs, you are simply not getting a boost. Yes this is largely a semantics argument but it is important. It again goes to the choices and consequences aspect of EVE (which is an important part of what makes this game so awesome). We all train at the same base rate. You get a bonus if you want to spend/risk the isk for the higher end implants.

I want real options, not the take it or leave it that you ultimately end up getting with monopolies and communist governments. That's where I feel most of these arguments fall flat. Take it or leave it isn't a real choice. Choices should be meaningful and real. Perhaps you could pay a fee to transfer more quickly. Maybe you could use an alternative where you can switch inside the 24 hours, but then the next switch takes 72 hours.

I read these forums and every single day that I do there is someone clamoring for more PVP participation. Image a football match where every single game you came away significantly injured. Participation would be a lot lower. Every time I look around someone is saying don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Well I can't take out my implants so I guess I just shouldn't fly around eh? Or maybe we could find another way.

As for EVEMON. If I know there's a chance I won't log on for awhile then I'll train one of the many V's and that gives me a good one to four week buffer. I certainly don't have to log on all the time to train up. Right now I'm training Advanced Laboratory Operation to IV (~5 days) and Minmatar Industrial V (~16 days) on my two characters respectively. Certainly not an every day log on kind of thing.

There are two kinds of pvpers, those who pvp and those who make excuses.

I've never had a jump clone, never needed +5s. 42mil SP in two years, can fly every ship I want, never worry about pod loss. My head is 150mil and contains all I need.

My options are to fly the expensive implants and risk losing them or to fly with cheap implants and train slower. If there's another choice please let me know.

My football analogy wasn't perfect, but I was trying to express that the consequences of sport have an effect on participation not that losing my clone means I don't get to play.

And finally, I don't have a +5 clone. Never had, mostly because I can't afford to replace it. The problem with EVE is that it's very, very unfriendly to people who don't make it a daily part of their lives or at least a very frequent part of their lives. It also means that when real life hits my EVE life comes very much second (or more likely fourth). I might only have one free evening. If I decide I want to play that evening, I come in, queue some of the short term skills I wanted, switch to a cheaper clone and then go PVP. The problem is that if the next time I'm able to log on is three weeks from now, then I just took a 10-20% training penalty from my normal to get in an evening of fun. So much for the sandbox of being able to play my way and create my stories.

But all of this is moot because I'm not saying I need this. I'm saying many PvE player's behavior is affected because of this perception and if this change were made our behavior would change. I'm certainly not the only one who stays away from lo-sec because of this. So given that CCP has stated it wants lo-sec better populated and PvEers do want to be able to PvP, just not with their expensive mission running ships and not with their expensive implants, why not make this little change (or some other similar change that nets the same effect)? I'm tired of people telling me that the way I'm playing in the sandbox is wrong. I'm not sitting here doing the same. I'm not coming in here a spoiled child and demanding the change or I'll quit in a huff and take my business elsewhere. I'm trying to say, this change will benefit lo-sec by making it more populated and creating more conflict.

As a trader/industrialist, I don't come in and say I don't care for missiles so CCP should ditch them. I'm fully willing to hear why this would be detrimental, but I don't care to hear about why others don't think I "need" this. I don't "need" this. I'm asking for it, because I want it. And others definitely can't dictate what I want (and vice versa).