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James 315 - An Apology and an Appeal
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#81 - 2013-02-14 20:28:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Sariah Kion wrote:



Yes, they are asking CCP to change. Have you not read this very thread or the platform of John 315? Come on. You're not that dense.


The CSM platform of James 315 is deliberately extreme & controversial, he knows full well that CCP won't implement 99.9% of the things he's basing his platform on, it is designed to provoke a reaction, welcome to politics.

In answer to your question, I've read the wall'o'text OP and I agree with it, I'm also well aware of what James 315 does, I've been involved in it for a few months now, even though I disagree with 90% of his CSM platform I'm in total agreement with what the New Order itself does.

Calling me dense does you no favours whatsoever and is bordering on getting personal, feel free to do so though because quite frankly, I don't give a damn about your opinion of me or my posting.

Just to clarify, I'm what many deem to be a carebear, what I am not is someone who thinks that non-consensual PvP needs to be removed from highsec. If it is ever removed I'll be amongst the first out of the door.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#82 - 2013-02-14 20:30:34 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Maybe we're going to get livestock trailers we can hitch to our ships? A place for all the Exotic Dancers, Janitors, Marines and Homeless we've been collecting.
Sounds good.

I'm in.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2013-02-14 20:32:32 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:



No. The pvp crazy pants crowd are the ones who have drawn a BS imagined line in the sand differentiating between the two making two groups "with us" and "against us".

Its all hogwash and most everyone falls into a middle ground mixing pvp with high sec activities.

We have come to the point where "high sec activities" and "PVP" are two mutually exclusive categories. Your words say more then you know. What started as a game with gradiating degrees of risk and reward the further out you went has been reduced to a place where you do 'highsec activities' to get the ISK to PVP (in presumably non-highsec areas).

Quote:
You can dismiss the realities of taking away options and play styles will lead to less revenue all you want but thats a pretty simple and fundamental fact and reality. Each time you take away options the people who operated under those options will leave, at least a significant portion. Its not a myth.

Of course it's a myth. CCP took away the "grind 140m an hour in highsec incursions' option - where did the thousands of incursion players leave to? Subs went up after Crucible and after a brief spike, went down after Incursion in its broken, risk-free form was released. Why would other advantages like 'wardec immunity for my farming alt' be any different? They aren't, the 'carebear dollar' myth is exactly that, a 'simple and fundamental fact' proven time and again.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-02-14 20:32:50 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:



Yes, they are asking CCP to change. Have you not read this very thread or the platform of John 315? Come on. You're not that dense.


The CSM platform of James 315 is deliberately extreme & controversial, he knows full well that CCP won't implement 99.9% of the things he's basing his platform on, it is designed to provoke a reaction.
In answer to your question, I've read the wall'o'text OP and I agree with it, I'm also well aware of what James 315 does, I've been involved in it for a few months now, even though I disagree with 90% of his CSM platform I'm in total agreement with what the New Order does.

Calling me dense does you no favours whatsoever and is bordering on getting personal, feel free to do so though because quite frankly, I don't give a damn about your opinion of me or my posting.


I dont care what the miner gankers do. It makes me no difference and doesnt affect my game play at all. The miners, however, are nto on the forums crying for changes to the game right now. Its the other element.

How people cant see why neutral players look at the extremes by both sides and think you are all crazy pants.

Also, you are dense if you dont acknowledge that the miner bumping movement is riding a platform of game design change. Sorry if that offends you but that is the truth.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#85 - 2013-02-14 20:33:55 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
The false dichotomy is the argument that either you are only a pvper or only a carebear. Thats a conveineint line drawn in the sand by a certain vocal group.
I presume you are referring to the group who demand game mechanic changes that grant them immunity from "pvpers".


...Déjà vu

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Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-02-14 20:35:28 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:

There are FAR more tears and calls for changes to the game now coming from gankers than miners. Far more.

Hell, the movement and this very thread wants to change the game.


Sariah Kion wrote:

Yes, they are asking CCP to change. Have you not read this very thread or the platform of John 315? Come on. You're not that dense.


Actually, the New Order hasn't done much in the way of asking CCP to change anything. The New Order has been making the change all on it's own. Miners begged CCP to stop the Order, CCP said deal with it. We're having fun making other people PLAY the game. If you think for one second that it's inexcusable for us to engage AFK ice miners using the mechanics that they have begged for over the years, I'm not sure what to tell you.

I don't see why everyone rushes to defend characters that the players can't even be assed enough to play but one click an hour, but the OP has given me hope in that some people can learn to read past the satire to see what's going on. As a new player, I can already see how easy it would be to fall into the silk prison of HighSec and never want to leave. Get horrified by the prospect of having to actually play the game, or be made aware that it's not a single player game.

Instead, people want to AFK mine ice with no tank, and cry when someone either bumps them out of mining range or kerplodes their mack.

"Oh noes, an Invincible Stabber bumped me 45 minutes ago and I just now noticed, CCP PLZ HALPS MY ISKS"

Proud member of the New Order of HighSec
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2013-02-14 20:38:33 UTC
james 315 plays eve at a level that no one can comprehend, it would be like trying to teach a gerbil calculus

Follow me on twitter
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-02-14 20:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Sariah Kion
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:



No. The pvp crazy pants crowd are the ones who have drawn a BS imagined line in the sand differentiating between the two making two groups "with us" and "against us".

Its all hogwash and most everyone falls into a middle ground mixing pvp with high sec activities.

We have come to the point where "high sec activities" and "PVP" are two mutually exclusive categories. Your words say more then you know. What started as a game with gradiating degrees of risk and reward the further out you went has been reduced to a place where you do 'highsec activities' to get the ISK to PVP (in presumably non-highsec areas).

Quote:
You can dismiss the realities of taking away options and play styles will lead to less revenue all you want but thats a pretty simple and fundamental fact and reality. Each time you take away options the people who operated under those options will leave, at least a significant portion. Its not a myth.

Of course it's a myth. CCP took away the "grind 140m an hour in highsec incursions' option - where did the thousands of incursion players leave to? Subs went up after Crucible and after a brief spike, went down after Incursion in its broken, risk-free form was released. Why would other advantages like 'wardec immunity for my farming alt' be any different? They aren't, the 'carebear dollar' myth is exactly that, a 'simple and fundamental fact' proven time and again.


I will agree with you on the fact that , low sec especially, needs to come in line with risk vs reward. Im not sure how they can bring that into balance but that does need to happen.

Dismiss this all you want to citing mechanics within individual expansions instead of seeing the reality as high sec has been slowly morphed into what it is today and correlating that with the steady rise in subscriptions and where that population growth resides in the galaxy. The long term numbers say all that needs to be said.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#89 - 2013-02-14 20:44:00 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
the reality as high sec has been slowly morphed into what it is today and correlating that with the steady rise in subscriptions and where that population growth resides in the galaxy. The long term numbers say all that needs to be said.
And a lack of pirates is causing global warming.

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Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-02-14 20:44:23 UTC
Vin King wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:

There are FAR more tears and calls for changes to the game now coming from gankers than miners. Far more.

Hell, the movement and this very thread wants to change the game.


Sariah Kion wrote:

Yes, they are asking CCP to change. Have you not read this very thread or the platform of John 315? Come on. You're not that dense.


Actually, the New Order hasn't done much in the way of asking CCP to change anything. The New Order has been making the change all on it's own. Miners begged CCP to stop the Order, CCP said deal with it. We're having fun making other people PLAY the game. If you think for one second that it's inexcusable for us to engage AFK ice miners using the mechanics that they have begged for over the years, I'm not sure what to tell you.

I don't see why everyone rushes to defend characters that the players can't even be assed enough to play but one click an hour, but the OP has given me hope in that some people can learn to read past the satire to see what's going on. As a new player, I can already see how easy it would be to fall into the silk prison of HighSec and never want to leave. Get horrified by the prospect of having to actually play the game, or be made aware that it's not a single player game.

Instead, people want to AFK mine ice with no tank, and cry when someone either bumps them out of mining range or kerplodes their mack.

"Oh noes, an Invincible Stabber bumped me 45 minutes ago and I just now noticed, CCP PLZ HALPS MY ISKS"




Really? You link to the James 315 CSM platform then try and say that you are not about "changing the game mechanics"

Big smile Good stuff....

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#91 - 2013-02-14 20:46:07 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
And a lack of pirates is causing global warming.

****, I'll get back to low-sec ASAP...

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#92 - 2013-02-14 20:46:57 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
the reality as high sec has been slowly morphed into what it is today and correlating that with the steady rise in subscriptions and where that population growth resides in the galaxy. The long term numbers say all that needs to be said.
And a lack of pirates is causing global warming.


Pirate

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Buzz Skywalker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2013-02-14 20:50:37 UTC
So, because mining barges and exhumers got a boost to their EHP, CCP is moving EvE in the direction of being a carebear campground themepark?

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.
Altaen
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#94 - 2013-02-14 20:50:53 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Wall-o-text taken to a whole new level.
Did not read.

This will be a productive thread. Roll


A shame. Was a good read.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#95 - 2013-02-14 20:54:37 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
****, I'll get back to low-sec ASAP...
Sariah Kion wrote:
Pirate


ohyou.jpg

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Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#96 - 2013-02-14 20:56:18 UTC
Buzz Skywalker wrote:
So, because mining barges and exhumers got a boost to their EHP, CCP is moving EvE in the direction of being a carebear campground themepark?

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.


Both extremes are outta their minds-crazy sometimes to be quite frank.

Its mostly personally/playstyle agenda driven as well and never as holistic and benevolent as "saving the game".

Im pretty safe in saying that the majority falls in the middle where they think the game needs the balance of playstyles and offerings to be as successful and fun as it can be.




[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#97 - 2013-02-14 20:57:44 UTC
Bravo, Vaeliel.

As for James CSM platform, I see it as partly satirising the idiotic crap we've seen other people - like trebor, ripard teg, etc - say, as well as the general consensus among so many of the highsec bears. Those kind of trammelification ideas have been pushed for years, a few have even been implemented, but they're not shouted out as insane and extreme (or at least not by many people).
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#98 - 2013-02-14 20:59:25 UTC
James is going to be a great CSM.

The Tears Must Flow
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#99 - 2013-02-14 21:08:47 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Vaeliel wrote:
Ask yourself this: How much does Eve really punish players now who can't be bothered to think and understand the game? How smart and on your toes do you actually have to be now to survive in the game and make progress?


Eve has never punished players for being stupid, other players punish them for being stupid, and it happens on a daily basis.

Putting a hardcap on the amount of douchebaggery one can inflict (introducing ore holds and buffing barges/exhumers, taking away insurance payout from suicide ganking) was long overdue. I'm all for teaching stupid people lessons the hard way, but allowing crap to go on like can flipping and insurance payouts to concorded ships was dumb and it took way too long for CCP to realize the definition of the word lame and how it was negatively affecting their new player retention. Things like that happen in a sandbox game though.

As for your second question; you don't have to be smart or on your toes to make progress in this game, all you have to do is log in for less than 60 seconds a few times a week.

P.S.

I read all that crap in the hopes you would sum up what James315 grand plan is and save me the agony of reading all of his crap.

Left dissapointed.


Negatively affecting their new player retention
Subscriptions doing nothing but increase (not counting the incarna fiasco)

pick one, mate

also, why should new player retention be held above OLD player retention. You've already got thousands upon thousands of people who have been paying month after month for years on end, if your attempts to retain new players alienate those players - the ones who are hooked, who are already a done deal - well that's just stupid
Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
#100 - 2013-02-14 21:16:31 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:


Really? You link to the James 315 CSM platform then try and say that you are not about "changing the game mechanics"

Big smile Good stuff....


You realize, I'm hoping, that there is a difference between James' CSM platform and the operations of the New Order. The Order is doing fantastic without changes. James' CSM platform is the same as any other CSM platform, a political manifesto of the direction he'd like to see the game go. I support his platform separately of my interactions with the New Order.

Proud member of the New Order of HighSec