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James 315 - An Apology and an Appeal
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mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-02-14 20:05:03 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:

CCP produces the population charts. Its pretty clear to everyone but the head in the sand pvpers.

Lets get honest. What would happen to this game if High Sec would function like low sec?

Ill tell you what would happen, the game would die.


Population charts only identify how many characters are where. Characters do not equate to players. For example, I've got something like twenty characters, most of whom are in highsec, but I sure as hell do not identify myself as a "highsec player".

So again. You have no more proof that highsec players are responsible for this game's growth than I do that nullsec players are.

Daniel Plain wrote:
highsec should not function like lowsec. because if it did, it would be lowsec. highsec should function like a starting point for new players to get off their training wheels and not for EVERYONE to stay there indefinitely and suck on glaciers while watching porn.


The first part of this, at least, is true. Duplicating gameplay across multiple classes of space is bad.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-02-14 20:05:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
flakeys wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
[
Here comes the irony part..... there really should be little doubt about who the self entitled element is in this argument.

You mean the people who insist on 'consensual PVP' only?



I think he means the folks who are more risk averse then the dude flying missions all day in his faction fit machariel and as such need high sec for easy ganking and a '''lookatmakillboardoWnzorz'' approach of the game ... quite certain he means those people.

Too bad the victims refuse to defend themselves or tank their ships and actively campaigned for a decade to nerf all forms of initiating PVP and thus all forms of actively defending themselves (so NPCs could do it for them). Just toooo baaad.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#63 - 2013-02-14 20:06:06 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
So, in other words, you dont like people playing in the sandbox differently that you.

There is a self entitled group in Eve, no doubt about that. Who that group is is very clear.
I presume you are referring to the group who demand game mechanic changes that grant them immunity from everyone else in the sandbox.

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GreenSeed
#64 - 2013-02-14 20:07:51 UTC
i haven't read a single post in this thread, should i be outraged at the carebears or at the evil gankers?

can someone please tell me?
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#65 - 2013-02-14 20:10:01 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
murdering carebears

Kill one carebear: you're a griefer.
Kill a million carebears: you're a savior.
Kill them all: you're a god.

A very lonely god, though.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#66 - 2013-02-14 20:10:06 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

highsec should not function like lowsec. because if it did, it would be lowsec. highsec should function like a starting point for new players to get off their training wheels and not for EVERYONE to stay there indefinitely and suck on glaciers while watching porn.


So, in other words, you dont like people playing in the sandbox differently that you.

There is a self entitled group in Eve, no doubt about that. Who that group is is very clear.

nice red herring. if any interaction between players other than chat is firewalled by game mechanics, we are not talking about a sandbox game any more. and that is exactly the problem. if you want to mindlessly grind pve content, go play tera (it also has lolis). leave at least this one game to players who value harsh environments more than fancy colors.

I should buy an Ishtar.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#67 - 2013-02-14 20:11:23 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
i haven't read a single post in this thread, should i be outraged at the carebears or at the evil gankers?

Um.... Maybe? I dunno any more.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#68 - 2013-02-14 20:12:01 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
Like I said, CCP isnt stupid. They are not going to cow tow to a minority that wants to limit everyone into playing the game they way they benefits them the most.

What the **** does a cow with a trailer hitch have to do with CCP and how people play EVE?

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#69 - 2013-02-14 20:12:03 UTC
Vaeliel wrote:
Ask yourself this: How much does Eve really punish players now who can't be bothered to think and understand the game? How smart and on your toes do you actually have to be now to survive in the game and make progress?


Eve has never punished players for being stupid, other players punish them for being stupid, and it happens on a daily basis.

Putting a hardcap on the amount of douchebaggery one can inflict (introducing ore holds and buffing barges/exhumers, taking away insurance payout from suicide ganking) was long overdue. I'm all for teaching stupid people lessons the hard way, but allowing crap to go on like can flipping and insurance payouts to concorded ships was dumb and it took way too long for CCP to realize the definition of the word lame and how it was negatively affecting their new player retention. Things like that happen in a sandbox game though.

As for your second question; you don't have to be smart or on your toes to make progress in this game, all you have to do is log in for less than 60 seconds a few times a week.

P.S.

I read all that crap in the hopes you would sum up what James315 grand plan is and save me the agony of reading all of his crap.

Left dissapointed.

Not today spaghetti.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#70 - 2013-02-14 20:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
The gank n bump brigade aren't asking CCP to change the way that others play, they are doing it themselves using the tools that CCP give them. The ones that are whining about the gank n bump brigade are asking CCP to change the way that others play, because they can't be arsed to do it themselves.

There's a big difference in entitlement there.

Here's the short and simple version.

People can play the game anyway they like, people are free to mine, mission run, grind anomalies, etc, what they are not free to do is complain when someone else decides to interfere with them by trying to engage them in PvP, if you don't like how others play, do something other than cry about it. If people want a truly risk free hisec the test server is that way ------->.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#71 - 2013-02-14 20:13:59 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
Like I said, CCP isnt stupid. They are not going to cow tow to a minority that wants to limit everyone into playing the game they way they benefits them the most.

What the **** does a cow with a trailer hitch have to do with CCP and how people play EVE?
Maybe we're going to get livestock trailers we can hitch to our ships? A place for all the Exotic Dancers, Janitors, Marines and Homeless we've been collecting.
Sounds good.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-02-14 20:14:12 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
So, in other words, you dont like people playing in the sandbox differently that you.

There is a self entitled group in Eve, no doubt about that. Who that group is is very clear.
I presume you are referring to the group who demand game mechanic changes that grant them immunity from everyone else in the sandbox.


So we should just get rid of high sec then.

Im with you.

There should be anarchy. No rule of law, No factions, no backstory or empire governments that enforce law. No NPC corporations. No brokers fees, no taxes. Just players and pew pew.

How exciting......

There is non consensual pvp in over 70% of the game. If folks are all about the pvp why are they not flocking to these areas to engage in pvp, after all, thats why everyone is here, right?

Low Sec and Null sec are a drag because of the people that play there. Irony? Yes, yes it is...


[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-02-14 20:16:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The gank n bump brigade aren't asking CCP to change the way that others play, they are doing it themselves using the tools that CCP give them. The ones that are whining about the gank n bump brigade are asking CCP to change the way that others do, because they can't be arsed to do it themselves.

There's a big difference in entitlement there.

Here's the short and simple version.

People can play the game anyway the like, people are free to mine, mission run, grind anomalies, etc, what they are not free to do is complain when someone else decides to interfere with them by trying to engage them in PvP, if you don't like how others play, do something other than cry about it. If people want a truly risk free hisec the test server is that way ------->.


There are FAR more tears and calls for changes to the game now coming from gankers than miners. Far more.

Hell, the movement and this very thread wants to change the game.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#74 - 2013-02-14 20:16:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Sariah Kion wrote:


There is non consensual pvp in 100% of the game.



ftfy

Sariah Kion wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The gank n bump brigade aren't asking CCP to change the way that others play, they are doing it themselves using the tools that CCP give them. The ones that are whining about the gank n bump brigade are asking CCP to change the way that others do, because they can't be arsed to do it themselves.

There's a big difference in entitlement there.

Here's the short and simple version.

People can play the game anyway the like, people are free to mine, mission run, grind anomalies, etc, what they are not free to do is complain when someone else decides to interfere with them by trying to engage them in PvP, if you don't like how others play, do something other than cry about it. If people want a truly risk free hisec the test server is that way ------->.


There are FAR more tears and calls for changes to the game now coming from gankers than miners. Far more.

Hell, the movement and this very thread wants to change the game.


The difference is that they're not asking CCP to do the change, they're doing it themselves. Some players adapt to the game and environment, others expect the environment and game to change around them. Guess which one is better for the game as a whole?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Obvious Cyno
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-02-14 20:19:40 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
can i get a tl;dr?


Eve is dying. James is our saviour. James for CSM

Good read. Good points. Read most of it and agree with what I read. Smile
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-02-14 20:19:55 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:


There is non consensual pvp in 100% of the game.



ftfy


True.

I was more meaning without NPC interference.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-02-14 20:21:42 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:


There is non consensual pvp in 100% of the game.



ftfy

Sariah Kion wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The gank n bump brigade aren't asking CCP to change the way that others play, they are doing it themselves using the tools that CCP give them. The ones that are whining about the gank n bump brigade are asking CCP to change the way that others do, because they can't be arsed to do it themselves.

There's a big difference in entitlement there.

Here's the short and simple version.

People can play the game anyway the like, people are free to mine, mission run, grind anomalies, etc, what they are not free to do is complain when someone else decides to interfere with them by trying to engage them in PvP, if you don't like how others play, do something other than cry about it. If people want a truly risk free hisec the test server is that way ------->.


There are FAR more tears and calls for changes to the game now coming from gankers than miners. Far more.

Hell, the movement and this very thread wants to change the game.


The difference is that they're not asking CCP to do the change, they're doing it themselves. Some players adapt to the game and environment, others expect the environment and game to change around them. Guess which one is better for the game as a whole?



Yes, they are asking CCP to change. Have you not read this very thread or the platform of John 315? Come on. You're not that dense.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#78 - 2013-02-14 20:23:03 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
So we should just get rid of high sec then.
False dichotomy.

Sariah Kion wrote:
There is non consensual pvp in over 70% of the game. If folks are all about the pvp why are they not flocking to these areas to engage in pvp, after all, thats why everyone is here, right?
This isn't even a non-sequiter, because it doesn't even form a coherent statement. Do you even understand what the words 'non consensual' mean?

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JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#79 - 2013-02-14 20:23:15 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Who the heck is James 315?
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-02-14 20:26:59 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
So we should just get rid of high sec then.
False dichotomy.

Sariah Kion wrote:
There is non consensual pvp in over 70% of the game. If folks are all about the pvp why are they not flocking to these areas to engage in pvp, after all, thats why everyone is here, right?
This isn't even a non-sequiter, because it doesn't even form a coherent statement. Do you even understand what the words 'non consensual' mean?


I clarified.

Using hyperbole to make an point is not a false dichotomy. It was clear satire and sarcasm.

The false dichotomy is the argument that either you are only a pvper or only a carebear. Thats a conveineint line drawn in the sand by a certain vocal group.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]