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James 315 - An Apology and an Appeal
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Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-02-14 19:04:30 UTC
I think its a little funny and ironic that the tag line "self entitled" is used so much with these guys. There is no more self entitled group that then mouth breathing pvp types who think anything short of "anarchy" is the death knell for a game.

There are reasonable pvp types, in fact, I think most of the pvpers in Eve understand the need of empire and a well rounded demographic to make Eve what it is and fuel the engine that provides the conflict.

There is a reason many of these mouth breathers have never developed their own MMO.........

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Zuroku Podiene
Blood Raven Syndicate
#42 - 2013-02-14 19:06:59 UTC
Call me crazy... but I actually like OPs post. Being an old avid Ultima Online player myself (man... how far we have come in MMOs simply astounds me) I definitely see the similiarities with what they are doing. I joined UO after Trammel was already implemented and after playing on it for a year... I had to switch to the PVP realm. Things just got boring quickly. You could hardly get excited if all you had was AI monsters in your face. There was no risk, all reward. That seems the way things in Eve are moving.

Now don't get me wrong. A lot of things that were broken did get quite nicely fixed (Bounty Hunting for one, good job on that) but all the nonsense about buffing mining barges? How do carebear's play without someone telling them what to click, really? If you got ganked, here's an idea. FIT A TANK LIKE EVERY OTHER SHIP ON THE DAMN GAME! I mean, I'm no Nostradamus. I've made my mistakes too (hauling 600m worth of cargo in a T1 hauler for instance), but the whole point of Eve is If you screw up, its your own damn fault. No one is going to hold your hand, give you a free hotdog, and get you a deed to a multi-million dollar home. You either learn, or you don't. Its a dog-eat-dog world in Eve, and that is what I love.

I know that most of the Eve playerbase likes a challenge. I mean, how could we play it otherwise? Even the interface is way more complex then your average MMO. But it lets you get creative. That's what we like.

How many other games can you say, " I own 25% of the entire game map."

I'm waiting.
Verfanny
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#43 - 2013-02-14 19:07:15 UTC
So if I understand well, James fights the carebear who play the sandbox their way who, in turn, fights James for playing the sandbox his way. Is that it?
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#44 - 2013-02-14 19:12:09 UTC
There is so much stupid in OP that it pains me to admit that OP's conclusions are right... because OP doesn't have the faintest clue why.

And this has potential to cross into entitlement territory, ironically...

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-02-14 19:14:32 UTC
Verfanny wrote:
So if I understand well, James fights the carebear who play the sandbox their way who, in turn, fights James for playing the sandbox his way. Is that it?


Thats close except one group doesnt want to play on a level playing field.

The ganking is fine but most of the tears come from the gankers now days because they have to put in more of an investment than 3 days skill training and throw away cheap ships to gank ships that took months to sit in and fly.

Make no mistake, the tears flow from both sides of this argument and the ganker element has been shedding a lot of them lately.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#46 - 2013-02-14 19:15:07 UTC
S.O.S. lost in the OP don't know wtf is going on someone halp

wumbo
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#47 - 2013-02-14 19:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Sariah Kion wrote:
Verfanny wrote:
So if I understand well, James fights the carebear who play the sandbox their way who, in turn, fights James for playing the sandbox his way. Is that it?


Thats close except one group doesnt want to play on a level playing field.

The ganking is fine but most of the tears come from the gankers now days because they have to put in more of an investment than 3 days skill training and throw away cheap ships to gank ships that took months to sit in and fly.

Make no mistake, the tears flow from both sides of this argument and the ganker element has been shedding a lot of them lately.

the person who wrote this suffers from a lack of reading comprehension.

@OP: very nice writeup. i wish every EVE player was able and willing to read and understand it.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-02-14 19:23:15 UTC
Verfanny wrote:
So if I understand well, James fights the carebear who play the sandbox their way who, in turn, fights James for playing the sandbox his way. Is that it?

no. james fights for the one popular MMO that is still somewhat of a sandbox to not be overrun by carebears and become a space candyand.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-02-14 19:26:54 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
Verfanny wrote:
So if I understand well, James fights the carebear who play the sandbox their way who, in turn, fights James for playing the sandbox his way. Is that it?


Thats close except one group doesnt want to play on a level playing field.

The ganking is fine but most of the tears come from the gankers now days because they have to put in more of an investment than 3 days skill training and throw away cheap ships to gank ships that took months to sit in and fly.

Make no mistake, the tears flow from both sides of this argument and the ganker element has been shedding a lot of them lately.

the person who wrote this suffers from a lack of reading comprehension.

@OP: very nice writeup. i wish every EVE player was able and willing to read and understand it.


Here comes the irony part..... there really should be little doubt about who the self entitled element is in this argument.

Not completely agreeing with something doesnt mean they didnt comprehend the material.


[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-02-14 19:32:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sariah Kion
Daniel Plain wrote:
Verfanny wrote:
So if I understand well, James fights the carebear who play the sandbox their way who, in turn, fights James for playing the sandbox his way. Is that it?

no. james fights for the one popular MMO that is still somewhat of a sandbox to not be overrun by carebears and become a space candyand.


They should get rid of high sec.

Then all 70k-100k( thats being generous) of you can run around in a game that would see little to no future development and quickly become a wasteland and forgotten game.


The Ultimate irony in all of this is the same folks who champion the growth of the game over the years fail to correlate that growth to the gradual changes to entice a less harsh "lifestyle" in high sec over the years.

I wish they would take out all safeguards and rule of law in high sec because this forum would be entertaining reading all of these morons cry as the game dies a quick death.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#51 - 2013-02-14 19:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Sariah Kion wrote:
I think its a little funny and ironic that the tag line "self entitled" is used so much with these guys. There is no more self entitled group that then mouth breathing pvp types who think anything short of "anarchy" is the death knell for a game.

There are reasonable pvp types, in fact, I think most of the pvpers in Eve understand the need of empire and a well rounded demographic to make Eve what it is and fuel the engine that provides the conflict.

There is a reason many of these mouth breathers have never developed their own MMO.........


Umm they did, some of the hated PKers (player killers) from UO that were running around murdering carebears, they got together and formed CCP, the company that produces Eve.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-02-14 19:38:08 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Verfanny wrote:
So if I understand well, James fights the carebear who play the sandbox their way who, in turn, fights James for playing the sandbox his way. Is that it?

no. james fights for the one popular MMO that is still somewhat of a sandbox to not be overrun by carebears and become a space candyand.


They should get rid of high sec.

Then all 70k-100k( thats being generous) of you can run around in a game that would see little to no future development and quickly become a wasteland and forgotten game.


The Ultimate irony in all of this is the same folks who champion the growth of the game over the years fail to correlate that growth to the gradual changes to entice a less harsh "lifestyle" in high sec over the years.

I wish they would take out all safeguards and rule of law in high sec because this forum would be entertaining reading all of these morons cry as the game dies a quick death.


You have no more proof that the growth of the game is exclusively due to highsec players than I do that it's due to nullsec players. Less silly claims, please.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-02-14 19:43:36 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Verfanny wrote:
So if I understand well, James fights the carebear who play the sandbox their way who, in turn, fights James for playing the sandbox his way. Is that it?

no. james fights for the one popular MMO that is still somewhat of a sandbox to not be overrun by carebears and become a space candyand.


They should get rid of high sec.

Then all 70k-100k( thats being generous) of you can run around in a game that would see little to no future development and quickly become a wasteland and forgotten game.


The Ultimate irony in all of this is the same folks who champion the growth of the game over the years fail to correlate that growth to the gradual changes to entice a less harsh "lifestyle" in high sec over the years.

I wish they would take out all safeguards and rule of law in high sec because this forum would be entertaining reading all of these morons cry as the game dies a quick death.


You have no more proof that the growth of the game is exclusively due to highsec players than I do that it's due to nullsec players. Less silly claims, please.


CCP produces the population charts. Its pretty clear to everyone but the head in the sand pvpers.

Lets get honest. What would happen to this game if High Sec would function like low sec?

Ill tell you what would happen, the game would die.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2013-02-14 19:47:35 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
[
Here comes the irony part..... there really should be little doubt about who the self entitled element is in this argument.

You mean the people who insist on 'consensual PVP' only?
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#55 - 2013-02-14 19:48:29 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
murdering carebears

Kill one carebear: you're a griefer.
Kill a million carebears: you're a savior.
Kill them all: you're a god.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2013-02-14 19:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Sariah Kion wrote:
Quote:
game is exclusively due to highsec players than I do that it's due to nullsec players. Less silly claims, please.


CCP produces the population charts. Its pretty clear to everyone but the head in the sand pvpers.

Lets get honest. What would happen to this game if High Sec would function like low sec?

Ill tell you what would happen, the game would die.

You're confusing "highsec inhabitant" with "PvP intolerant player". Most players live in highsec because it is competitively advantageous to do so, not because they refuse to take risks. It's that the rewards for taking risks are not there. Players like being rewarded. Change the rewards and risks equally for all and we'll see who stays and who goes.

What we do know is that the "PvE exclusive" crowd, judging by carebear expansions that are considered failures like Incursion and Tyrannis, is a small minority when it comes to CCP's bottom line. Whether it's because they are small in number or because they PLEX all their subs, I can't say, but I can say that nerfing their riskaverse isk farming "playstyle" will not kill EVE.

The "carebear dollar" myth is usually invoked when all other arguments to defend anti-PVP standpoints are exhausted and the anti-EVE arguer has to resort to threatening EVE itself.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-02-14 19:52:40 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Verfanny wrote:
So if I understand well, James fights the carebear who play the sandbox their way who, in turn, fights James for playing the sandbox his way. Is that it?

no. james fights for the one popular MMO that is still somewhat of a sandbox to not be overrun by carebears and become a space candyand.


They should get rid of high sec.

Then all 70k-100k( thats being generous) of you can run around in a game that would see little to no future development and quickly become a wasteland and forgotten game.


The Ultimate irony in all of this is the same folks who champion the growth of the game over the years fail to correlate that growth to the gradual changes to entice a less harsh "lifestyle" in high sec over the years.

I wish they would take out all safeguards and rule of law in high sec because this forum would be entertaining reading all of these morons cry as the game dies a quick death.


You have no more proof that the growth of the game is exclusively due to highsec players than I do that it's due to nullsec players. Less silly claims, please.


CCP produces the population charts. Its pretty clear to everyone but the head in the sand pvpers.

Lets get honest. What would happen to this game if High Sec would function like low sec?

Ill tell you what would happen, the game would die.

is eve dying again? oh my...

highsec should not function like lowsec. because if it did, it would be lowsec. highsec should function like a starting point for new players to get off their training wheels and not for EVERYONE to stay there indefinitely and suck on glaciers while watching porn.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-02-14 19:58:01 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:

highsec should not function like lowsec. because if it did, it would be lowsec. highsec should function like a starting point for new players to get off their training wheels and not for EVERYONE to stay there indefinitely and suck on glaciers while watching porn.


So, in other words, you dont like people playing in the sandbox differently that you.

There is a self entitled group in Eve, no doubt about that. Who that group is is very clear.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
flakeys
Doomheim
#59 - 2013-02-14 19:58:45 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
[
Here comes the irony part..... there really should be little doubt about who the self entitled element is in this argument.

You mean the people who insist on 'consensual PVP' only?



I think he means the folks who are more risk averse then the dude flying missions all day in his faction fit machariel and as such need high sec for easy ganking and a '''lookatmakillboardoWnzorz'' approach of the game ... quite certain he means those people.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-02-14 20:04:26 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
Quote:
game is exclusively due to highsec players than I do that it's due to nullsec players. Less silly claims, please.


CCP produces the population charts. Its pretty clear to everyone but the head in the sand pvpers.

Lets get honest. What would happen to this game if High Sec would function like low sec?

Ill tell you what would happen, the game would die.

You're confusing "highsec inhabitant" with "PvP intolerant player". Most players live in highsec because it is competitively advantageous to do so, not because they refuse to take risks. It's that the rewards for taking risks are not there. Players like being rewarded. Change the rewards and risks equally for all and we'll see who stays and who goes.

What we do know is that the "PvE exclusive" crowd, judging by carebear expansions that are considered failures like Incursion and Tyrannis, is a small minority when it comes to CCP's bottom line. Whether it's because they are small in number or because they PLEX all their subs, I can't say, but I can say that nerfing their riskaverse isk farming "playstyle" will not kill EVE.

The "carebear dollar" myth is usually invoked when all other arguments to defend anti-PVP standpoints are exhausted and the anti-EVE arguer has to resort to threatening EVE itself.



No. The pvp crazy pants crowd are the ones who have drawn a BS imagined line in the sand differentiating between the two making two groups "with us" and "against us".

Its all hogwash and most everyone falls into a middle ground mixing pvp with high sec activities.

You can dismiss the realities of taking away options and play styles will lead to less revenue all you want but thats a pretty simple and fundamental fact and reality. Each time you take away options the people who operated under those options will leave, at least a significant portion. Its not a myth.

Like I said, CCP isnt stupid. They are not going to cow tow to a minority that wants to limit everyone into playing the game they way they benefits them the most.



[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]