EVE General Discussion

Who is this James315 guy?
I've never heard of miner bumping, but I am getting the gist of whats it's about.
So is being a miner, even if you are 100% active at your keyboard, a bad decision? It certainly seems so from the comments on this thread, on the forums altogether. It would seem mining instantly makes you one of the most hated people in the game.

I have only mined in high sec simply because I have no back up, I don't really know what goes on in low sec (except for I die from gate camps lol). Joined a low sec corp years ago, and was bloody bored when we were war decced by a 3 man corp who were so superior to us in combat. All I got to do for the next week or so was log on, sit in station, check training que, log off.

So why would I ever move out of high sec again, knowing that the general consensus is that the EvE universe hates you, that you can bet your bottom dollar that every person in local would, and probably will, kill you if you even think about undocking in a mining boat.

Their is no gain, only risk.

Maybe I am missing a point, but if people want carebears to move out of high sec, than goddam take us under your wing, protect us, guide us, and we will carebear the **** out of your null sec rocks just for the fun of it.

From the perspective of a risk averse, clueless miner carebear.

Your post makes me sad, Johno, because I can see that you are an intelligent person who honestly wants to play this game as it should be played, but you don't know how. Probably you are a victim of bad advice given oh so long ago. That you have stayed in an NPC corp for so long has only made it worse.

I am going to tell you what you need to do to turn your life around, Johno. Go to www.minerbumping.com, read what James315 has to say. Then, when you are ready, but yourself a Catalyst and come to the New Order to be baptized by CONCORD. You will become a part of our community and doors will be opened to you all over New Eden.

Read what the OP of this thread has to say. It's long, but worth it. The point he makes, in a nutshell, is that this isn't about persecuting miners - it's about saving EVE.

I'm listening to the audio interview right now. The interviewer seems to be unable to get beyond the fact that nerfing hisec isn't about "forcing" players out of hisec rather its about rewarding and encouraging people who take a more interactive and creative approach to the game.

If someone wants to take on the challenge of lowsec PI and industry or of mining in nullsec then they should have access to rewards far beyond those available in highsec. It needs to be this way because a player outside of concord will loose more ships, they need a way to replace those ships.

Currently the ISK that you make in low or null mining is not worth the risk, you will loose isk doing it. The only way to balance this is to drastically reduce the mining opportunities in highsec so that the minerals gained from low and null mining will be worth more.

They should do away with all Ice belts in highsec and increase the volume of highsec ore by a factor of 5 or 10. Bears can still mine to their hearts content, but not be enabled to PLEX 6 alt accounts which they will have to adopt botting tactics to use.

Perhaps the ISK price for PLEX will fall if that happens, but this is perhaps where the PLEX experiment finds its resting place. If the PLEX program is pulling players into AFK / bot gamestyles and removing incentive to go out and interact with others then I'm not sure it is encouraging the emergent MMO sandbox gameplay that Eve advertises. The drift of Eve from a ruthless, engaging, open world into one of sleepy, safety obsessed ISK income may be caused by PLEX.

As James315 says "If its possible to nerf highsec risk into oblivion then its also possible to nerf highsec reward into oblivion."

LOL, no. It is nothing of the kind.

One side (the highsec dwellers) believes their "style" (i.e. endless accumulation of wealth through "hard work") should not be interfered with. To this end, they petition devs, push their agenda to CSM, and are generally very successful in changing the game to agree with their vision.

The other side, the self-styled "bad guys", does not participate in the above game-changing activities to the same extent. Even when they do, they are not as successful, as these people are a less homogeneous, less organized crowd; they do not have a unifying "play style"; they have less avenues to make their voices heard; and, let's face it, they are not as numerous as the guys running L4s or AFK mining.



A thousand times yes.

Nobody on the "bad" side (including James 315) would tell you that mining or missions should be removed from the game. And it is always funny to hear the argument that "PvPers" (whatever that word means) want to have no mining/PvE in EVE. It is a strawman argument.

Problem is, the risk-averse majority pushed this game (quite successfully) to the point that risk has been completely, entirely eliminated from significant parts of it. That has nothing to do with "bad guys" trying to destroy anyone's "play style".

In fact, the only "style" that was removed from the game was canflipping, with the introduction of ore holds. It was a very targeted, very specific change that was requested by the risk-averse majority. It has diminished the game, and it was done by CCP solely to gain (or retain) subscription numbers among "mainstream" MMO players.

The same thing happened to UO, and the result was not pretty.



Yes, and when you don't like something in the sandbox, you petition, and the sandbox gets new rules. Which benefit you, of course.



LOL?
Risk has been completely removed from highsec, what with Orcas, ore holds, Concord buffs, nerfs to "boomerang" mechanics, changes to fleets/gangs/wardecs, changes to sec status loss, Crimewatch 2.0, and a thousand other papercuts. This is just the stuff I remember without even trying.
All of this was player-driven. Driven by the risk-averse among us.

To be honest, I cannot come up with a single example of a change that made lowsec or 0.0 *more* rewarding in a way comparable to the highsec buffs above. Not one.




This thread, minerbumping.com, and James 315 are NOT about mining or miners.

The argument is that the risk-averse majority was very successful in changing the basic game mechanics to benefit their "play style" (as you call it). They want everyone else to just leave them alone, and are very vocal and pushy towards that goal. The two sides of the argument are not in any way equivalent.