These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: No Brakes - Ship and module Balancing in Retribution 1.1

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#221 - 2013-02-19 15:41:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Urgg Boolean
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
CCP Seagull wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Thanks for all the hard work Fozzie.

It was probably wise to emphasize that there will definitely be further balancing passes based on feedback and need. Not that I think much will be needed (if any) but that should calm down the crowd that likes to panic based on theorycrafting untl they actually have a chance to use these things live.


I'd like to eventually reach the point where everyone just assumes that we'll keep iterating as needed, but I know that kind of trust takes time to build.


I'd just like to confirm that the ship balancing effort is a fully supported long term project that I see as core to developing and caring for our game.


Fozzie mentioned tech 2 and 3 ships in the pipeline as well as capitals.

What are the plans for faction boats? I know you've said that some are already fairly balanced, but what about ships like:

-scythe fleet issue
-osprey navy issue
-augoror navy issue
-exquror navy issue
-worm
-succubus
-gila
-caracal navy issue
-vexor navy issue
-stabber fleet issue (great ship but it's supposed to have similar/better speed to a normal stabber, which is currently not the case)
-hookbill
-comet
-slicer
-firetail

that have been left a bit behind in the balancing updates (navy cruisers are pretty lacking in velocity in comparison to the T1 counterparts)


Faction ships are definitely part of the plan. The reason I didn't mention them alongside the T2, T3 and Caps is that Faction ships have tiers, and therefore fall under "Tiericide".


This scares me because I have invested heavily in Faction and Pirate BSs. The costs overall, and the dual Racial skills needed for pirate boats justifies the tiered nature. If you guys nerf the crap out of Navy and Pirate BSs to make them different flavors of wimpy T1 boats, then I for one will be very unhappy. I didn't train dual racial BS trees just to get an alternate version of T1 capabillity. I pay the large price tags and spent the time to get the advantage of boats with overall superiority to plain old T1.

If this has already been commented on, my apologies. If not, can we get a glimpse of the tiericidal palns ?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#222 - 2013-02-19 15:43:08 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
CCP Seagull wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Thanks for all the hard work Fozzie.

It was probably wise to emphasize that there will definitely be further balancing passes based on feedback and need. Not that I think much will be needed (if any) but that should calm down the crowd that likes to panic based on theorycrafting untl they actually have a chance to use these things live.


I'd like to eventually reach the point where everyone just assumes that we'll keep iterating as needed, but I know that kind of trust takes time to build.


I'd just like to confirm that the ship balancing effort is a fully supported long term project that I see as core to developing and caring for our game.


Fozzie mentioned tech 2 and 3 ships in the pipeline as well as capitals.

What are the plans for faction boats? I know you've said that some are already fairly balanced, but what about ships like:

-scythe fleet issue
-osprey navy issue
-augoror navy issue
-exquror navy issue
-worm
-succubus
-gila
-caracal navy issue
-vexor navy issue
-stabber fleet issue (great ship but it's supposed to have similar/better speed to a normal stabber, which is currently not the case)
-hookbill
-comet
-slicer
-firetail

that have been left a bit behind in the balancing updates (navy cruisers are pretty lacking in velocity in comparison to the T1 counterparts)


Faction ships are definitely part of the plan. The reason I didn't mention them alongside the T2, T3 and Caps is that Faction ships have tiers, and therefore fall under "Tiericide".


This scares me because I have invested heavily in Faction and Pirate BSs. The costs overall, and the dual Racial skills needed for pirate boats justifies the tiered nature. If you guys nerf the crap out of Navy and Pirate BSs to make them different flavors of wimpy T1 boats, then I for one will be very unhappy. I didn't train dual racial BS trees just to get an alternate version of T1 capabillity.

If this has already been commented on, my apologies. If not, can we get a glimpse of the tiericidal palns ?


Pirate BS are not a tier of T1 BS. When I say faction ships have tiers I mean ships like the Armageddon Navy Issue and Apocalypse Navy Issue, which are two tiers of navy faction BS.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#223 - 2013-02-19 18:22:53 UTC
Mostly just scanned the dev responses and did not see a couple issues addressed:

1. At 34k each repair paste, it will cost a player about 275k ISK for each cycle of the AAR. Did CCP even consider that?

2. Remote armor reps are still way out of balance with remote shied in terms of fitting. You can EASILY slap a large S95a shield transporter on a tengu or BC. Try doing that with a large remote armor repper and a proteus. There is still a fundamental imbalance between armor and shield tanking that is not addressed by any of the changes. 10% power grid reduction for large armor reppers does help, but it still is way out of line compared to shield modules.

I'm still digesting all this as I feel like either CCP just does not "get it" or I am missing something.
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#224 - 2013-02-19 19:45:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Crexa
Congratulations! You just turned the Prophecy from the least flown BC into... the least flown BC.

Sorry guys but you got to get a bit more creative on roles for these ships if your going to even bother. If I am flying a drone boat its one of 4 Myrm, Domi, Gila or Rattle.

Why not look at some of the mods in existence that are specialty mods ie. smarties. How about a boat that doubles the range and reduces cap use of smarties.

Not that this is a fantastic idea or anything, its just not a copy/paste from another class of ship. This goes for all the changes you have implemented and proposed to date.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
tom trade valine
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#225 - 2013-02-19 21:41:43 UTC
Sorry but i have both a drake a hurrican that i have to refit and now see less damage from both and no extras likw with the drake less ammo needed, CCP why do you listen to the ones that complaine so much and nerf everything in here. I have a idea for you next nerf just make it where we all get 1 weapon that always dose the same damage no matter what that way no one is able to get a stonger shot the someone else. All these nerfs ruin games and you keep damageing yours. you would ahve more players if you didnt keep going like you ahve been. If someone dosent like aother ship the dont fly it or learn to fight it better and get the skills up
Kill4Jesse J
Meltem Down Mining Corp.
The-Expanse
#226 - 2013-02-20 03:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kill4Jesse J
Yea got to agree with most in here they just screwed up a couple good ships, If your goin to balance and make all the Bc's even, why even have different races, You should make us all the same race we could all fly the same ships and do the same damage, Never fails in any game you get people complaining about a couple things that they dont even fly bet they wasn,t even close to haveing the proper skill sets to fly what they was complaining about, ITs not fair my caracal can't beat the drake it needs a nerf. LOL and what does CCP do they listen to them, They was all fine the way they was. Why is it there's always someone in the company that has to screw it up for everyone else, Is there a corp given you a kick back some where???
What an epic waste of my time, they not even worth buiding and puting on the market now, Good job guys

Seriously thinkin of not reactivating my accounts now, not worth playin.

Thumbs down on this patch
Space Junk1
Thiaoloi Mavroi
#227 - 2013-02-20 07:32:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Space Junk1
Congratulations for turning Battlecruisers into "Heavy Cruisers". Shocked

I see little to no reason to fly the more expensive "heavy cruisers" instead of Cruisers anymore. Especially after the cruisers buff. You could had left the battlecruisers as they was and buff the less used/unbalanced ones.
MainDrain
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#228 - 2013-02-20 08:28:30 UTC
Crexa wrote:
Congratulations! You just turned the Prophecy from the least flown BC into... the least flown BC.

Sorry guys but you got to get a bit more creative on roles for these ships if your going to even bother. If I am flying a drone boat its one of 4 Myrm, Domi, Gila or Rattle.

Why not look at some of the mods in existence that are specialty mods ie. smarties. How about a boat that doubles the range and reduces cap use of smarties.

Not that this is a fantastic idea or anything, its just not a copy/paste from another class of ship. This goes for all the changes you have implemented and proposed to date.
Yankunytjatjara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#229 - 2013-02-24 12:01:58 UTC
Callduron wrote:
Yankunytjatjara wrote:
Concerning iteration, I was wondering if the rifter is considered balanced now. I have a sensation that the minmatar workhorse became quite outdated after the introduction of the slasher.

Obviously, I am biased, as good old CCP Diagoras made clear: http://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/185397710394900480

Still... Why would anyone choose it over the faster slasher? The only advantage seems to be the possibility to add a rocket launcher... How about replacing the tracking bonus with a RoF bonus, making it a smaller version of the ruppie?


Rifter has higher base shields and armour and gets an extra low rather than a mid. Try an AAR Rifter against other people's Slashers next week, it should take them in a straight brawl.


That's not enough as proven by the dramatic decline in its use. The rifter is simply outdated nowadays.

My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors