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Threshold for ganking a Freighter should be higher? Discuss
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#61 - 2013-02-14 21:05:25 UTC
Meredith Karrde wrote:
There's an impossible bias towards Pirates/Criminals:
1) They are allowed everywhere, where the non-pirates are being killed if we dare enter their territory.
2) A pirate in Hi-Sec (which is completely illogical, in RL they would not even be tolerated in 0.5 space) is PROTECTED from being killed. Targetting a Pirate/Criminal is basically enough to get aggression from the CCP-Concorde. Even if you have a high standing with the space you are in.

We can complain about this until our tongues are worn off, nothing will change.
Probably because one of the Criminals is a GM.
Yes, they are very favorable biassed...


1. you have access to all areas of the game, same as me.

2. Suspect system and negative status mean you can attack us, Bounties mean you get payed for killing us and most of the ships we use are profitable to gank.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2013-02-14 21:07:57 UTC
What if all supercaps and sov bits were sold through the aurum store either as cheap bpcs or more expensive whole items?
Ooh that is actually a fun idea.


Why does no one comment on my little guide on freighter ganking?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#63 - 2013-02-14 22:50:01 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Ok for those not following.

Empty hulls are never ganked unless the squad is so high on victory they dont care (these people dont last long as they are wasting money)

there are 2 ways to gank a freighter.
The alphanado (16 nados @110mil each)
and
the Bumping Blastos (only 7 blastos at ~100 mil each) but also includes 2 bump machs and a bump fleet stabber.
Now if the squads are specialized and trained to the max the costs drop significantly and the gank can be done for under 500 mil.

Now onto the loot.
The rng seems to settle on a 60-40 split against you.
So on average only 40 % of all stacks will drop.
So what this means is that if you stack all you may be passed on due to the risk

from this we find that the baseline is 1.25 bil in cargo must be hauled for a perfect gank to break even.
A new gank squad needs 1.75 bil to break even.


Very excellent and informative post!

I take it, in order to gank a JF you want to see 2.5B in cargo or preferably 3.5B right?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-02-14 22:53:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


2. Suspect system and negative status mean you can attack us, Bounties mean you get payed for killing us and most of the ships we use are profitable to gank.



Just to be sure, you mean that ganking a GankTalos would be profitable or did I read that wrong?
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-02-14 22:57:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Core Researcher wrote:
hi,

I am here to suggest that the cost of ganking a freighter should be higher than the ~1bn ISK it currently is.



Its currently 2.5 billion.


And yet I keep losing Charons full of Trit to you guys.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-02-14 23:01:21 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Core Researcher wrote:
hi,

I am here to suggest that the cost of ganking a freighter should be higher than the ~1bn ISK it currently is.



Its currently 2.5 billion.


And yet I keep losing Charons full of Trit to you guys.


Link a killmail

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Whitehound
#67 - 2013-02-14 23:02:55 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Core Researcher wrote:
hi,

I am here to suggest that the cost of ganking a freighter should be higher than the ~1bn ISK it currently is.



Its currently 2.5 billion.


And yet I keep losing Charons full of Trit to you guys.

Don't take him serious. Players get ganked for less than 2.5b ISKs. Some use almost empty courier contracts (filled with empty freight containers) and take 2b ISKs collateral for it. When the freighter comes through Uedama does it get ganked. No loot needs to be picked up and it is a guaranteed 2b ISKs profit. The profit for this will start below 1b ISKs (whatever the gank fleet costs) and it is then only a question of how much each pilot in the gank fleet expects as a minimum payment.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-02-14 23:03:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The fact that you can kill billions worth of hull and cargo with less than a million ISK means that the game is balanced properly.


I want to see you killing 700k+ EHP Damnation with 10 Nados in 1.0.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-02-14 23:04:43 UTC
Because charon load of trit is worth less than 600M and they don't generally go after anything that won't drop at least five times that

Also whether or not that massive stack of trit drops is up to a coinflip

so yeah keep lying through your teeth 8-)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Whitehound
#70 - 2013-02-14 23:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Andski wrote:
Link a killmail

It is not news. You can search for them yourself. Other Goons have already confirmed to sometimes gank empty freighters when the pilot is -10 with you folks. Just for laughs.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-02-14 23:09:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Whitehound wrote:
Andski wrote:
Link a killmail

It is not news. You can search for them yourself. Other Goons have already confirmed to sometimes gank empty freighters when the pilot is -10 with you folks. Just for laughs.


you can fill up a charon with GSCs and fill those with trit and it /still/ won't be worth ganking even taking the value of the GSCs into account so please keep lying so blatantly ;p

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-02-14 23:11:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Andski wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Andski wrote:
Link a killmail

It is not news. You can search for them yourself. Other Goons have already confirmed to sometimes gank empty freighters when the pilot is -10 with you folks. Just for laughs.


you can fill up a charon with GSCs and fill those with trit and it /still/ won't be worth ganking so please keep lying so blatantly ;p


That's why I use SSCs.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-02-14 23:16:57 UTC
Hey OP, what's in your mouth ??
Whitehound
#74 - 2013-02-14 23:17:45 UTC
Andski wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Andski wrote:
Link a killmail

It is not news. You can search for them yourself. Other Goons have already confirmed to sometimes gank empty freighters when the pilot is -10 with you folks. Just for laughs.


you can fill up a charon with GSCs and fill those with trit and it /still/ won't be worth ganking so please keep lying so blatantly ;p

Actually do you never kill for profit, but for various other reasons. You only like the idea that your kills are perceived as a legitimate business strategy or else you'd be drowning in the tears of your victims. And that is the truth!

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#75 - 2013-02-14 23:20:24 UTC
Core Researcher wrote:
ship investment: ~1.3bn ISK

So immediately on gank the Freighter pilot loses ~300m in comparison to the gank fleet
(1.3bn ship - 1bn gankfleet).


Let's reverse that logic...if it should require at least the cost of your hull to gank you, then shouldn't you also be able to gank anything that costs less than your hull? That means a tornado should be able to gank a harbinger. Are you sure you want to take that approach?

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
#76 - 2013-02-14 23:50:29 UTC
lots of strawmen, personal attacks, tangents and other EvE forums type stuff here, as expected.

Very entertaining, highlights include:

Razor Alliance
that one person that posts like they would like to punch me in the face they are sooo angry.

Big smile

anyway.

SUICIDE GANKING.

This is the point.

In the particular case of suicide ganking it DOES matter the comparative costs of the ships.
You are saying "we are prepared to put this much at stake to attack you in high security space and we are prepared to accept the consequences."
There is no war-dec or flashy red or yellow here, just a cold calculation: cost vs risk vs reward.

So I did not make these rules, the game did.


You know who agrees with me?

CCP.

You know how I know this?

Mining barges.


There will always be, and should always be, pilots autopiloting with too great a value in cargo. There should be room for the truckers of space to take a few more courier jobs before they become targets.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#77 - 2013-02-14 23:57:27 UTC
Actually the courier issue can be solved by removing the notification of who took it until after the time expires.
This way they cant just sit and wait for the taker to undock then gank.
Whitehound
#78 - 2013-02-15 00:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
NEONOVUS wrote:
Actually the courier issue can be solved by removing the notification of who took it until after the time expires.
This way they cant just sit and wait for the taker to undock then gank.

I disagree. The best solution in my opinion, and I already added I to the mega-wish-list thread, is to treat courier contracts like temporary purchases, meaning, you should be able to see what you will load up with before you accept. If you are going to pay the collateral then the stuff is practically yours for the time of the haul and the pilot has the same rights to know what it is just like with item exchange contracts and auctions.

And why is it that my spelling correction suggests "piratically " over "practically"?! My dictionary got ambushed...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#79 - 2013-02-15 00:04:46 UTC
Core Researcher wrote:
In the particular case of suicide ganking it DOES matter the comparative costs of the ships.


What you're suggesting is that the entire game be bent around the issue of suicide ganking. You want freighters to be harder for EVERYONE to kill, because they might be ganked. Alternatively, you want to make popular gank ships more expensive--or freigheters less expensive--in order to rectify this perceived imbalance.

Core Researcher wrote:
You know how I know this?

Mining barges.


it would take a LOT of catalysts to equal the value of a hulk. Far more than are required to gank one. You just lost the debate for yourself, well done.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
#80 - 2013-02-15 00:30:43 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Core Researcher wrote:
In the particular case of suicide ganking it DOES matter the comparative costs of the ships.


What you're suggesting is that the entire game be bent around the issue of suicide ganking. You want freighters to be harder for EVERYONE to kill, because they might be ganked. Alternatively, you want to make popular gank ships more expensive--or freigheters less expensive--in order to rectify this perceived imbalance.

Core Researcher wrote:
You know how I know this?

Mining barges.


it would take a LOT of catalysts to equal the value of a hulk. Far more than are required to gank one. You just lost the debate for yourself, well done.


ill bite.

If you are at war and u catch a freighter would double the EHP matter? triple?
You catch it in low sec, null sec, wormhole space, would it really matter?

You are zeroing in on the "make this more expensive" or "this less expensive" aspect.

What is really being debated here is an increase in EHP for a freighter, not an increase in cost for anything. The OP didnt make that clear but we're all clever dudes here in EvE right?

I dont see your point on the Hulk either tbh?

Hulks were cheap to gank. Mining barges were buffed and players were given an option of tank or yield. So now it takes many more SUICIDE GANKERS to kill a tanked mining ship.

So what was your point exactly and how did i lose any debate?