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Threshold for ganking a Freighter should be higher? Discuss
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Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
#21 - 2013-02-14 15:29:27 UTC
Mai Khumm wrote:
HeavensAngel wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:
Posting in an obvious "CCP, please patch stupid" thread.
They (tried) to patch stupid with the mining barges, now it's moved onto Freighters.

I have an awesome idea!
Why not pull your heads out of each others asses and fly smart.
Like bring ECM and Logistical support.
Not put billions of ISK worth of crap into it's hold.

Oh, that's too complicated?
OK then, keep feeding the gankers the killmail and loot, fly like complete morons.
Then go on the forums and constantly post over and over again, begging CCP to patch stupid...


wondering what ECM and Logistics will help when your freighter gets killed by an alpha strike ... but thats just my 2 cent

I've done it several times.
*Looks at inventory and skillsheet, then personal losses.*
Looks like I'm a Freighter and JF pilot, with no losses.
*Checks former indy corps killboard*
Sees several kills.

Huh, looks like it works to me.
So there is a proven way to defend against Freighter ganking.


Core Researcher wrote:


Dont pilot what you can't afford to lose.

I agree with this statement. I think freighters should be gankable. My issue is the cost of ganking one to the parties involved. Freighters should be gankable at a cost that is equivalent to the minimum comparative cost to the freigher pilot.

using the numbers above the average gankfleet should cost 2.3bn ISK to put together.

Smile


So first my quote answers your post. Im not against ganking. You are being overly hostile in your reaction to a cause of debate.

I would also like your explanation for the 'proven way to avoid gank'. This technique should invole no more than one pilot please.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#22 - 2013-02-14 15:32:08 UTC
you cant put an arbitrary value on what makes something worthwhile ganking.. it all depends on how much the tears are worth to the gankers surely ?
Whitehound
#23 - 2013-02-14 15:36:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Core Researcher wrote:
hi,

I am here to suggest that the cost of ganking a freighter should be higher than the ~1bn ISK it currently is.



Its currently 2.5 billion.

Scary when such info comes from Bat Country...

Could I please get a notification when the value changes? Thank you.


Oh, and I want a bigger freighter class, with more eHP and much more cargo space, please.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#24 - 2013-02-14 15:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I am more interested about JFs.
Some guys keep telling me I am mad flying a JF around (including hi sec) because it's profitable to gank even when empty.

Is this a gross idiocy or not?
Not when I fly one. P

Ship valued at 7bn = 1.4bn payout in bounty, covered neatly by the 4.5bn bounty on my head — more than enough to repay the cost of the gank (never mind any additional bounty payout from destroyed cargo and any dropped loot or salvage). I'm basically a walking (flying?) ATM. Big smile
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-02-14 15:44:12 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Core Researcher wrote:
hi,

I am here to suggest that the cost of ganking a freighter should be higher than the ~1bn ISK it currently is.



Its currently 2.5 billion.

i've read about "ganking standard": 15 tornadoes. Is it right?


No.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#26 - 2013-02-14 15:45:28 UTC
Freighters should have a single low slot for fitting either a cargo, agility or defensive mode.

People who fit for cargo and die have not a leg to stand on.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#27 - 2013-02-14 15:46:19 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Freighters should have a single low slot for fitting either a cargo, agility or defensive mode.

People who fit for cargo and die have not a leg to stand on.
I'd prefer not to have my freighters nerfed in that way.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-02-14 15:47:02 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
It only takes 1 billion to destroy a 1.3-1.7 billion isk ship so there is that.


It only costs 20 Cents to destroy a 50 thousand dollar car. The isk tanking idea is as stupid as it sounds.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mc Scam
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-02-14 15:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mc Scam
Captain Tardbar wrote:

Isn't rewarding gankers reverse entitilment?

Ganking happens all the time now to afk freighters so its not like its doesn't appear from a logistics standpoint to be unreasonbly hard to gank a frieghter for those who put their mind to it.

I think numbers should be left alone and emergent gameplay should be the key factor to determine what happens.

The numbers now currently are in favor of the gankers anyways. It only takes 1 billion to destroy a 1.3-1.7 billion isk ship so there is that.


Afaik actual suicide ganking has taken a massive hit since retribuition. Most gankers have now joined smaller corps that wardec all the large ones and those that are known for hauling.

Yes it takes 1B(well not really if you take killrights and podding into calculations) to suicide a freighter but you must also get that loss back and make a profit. Freighter pilots know that and usually don't haul enough to make a gank worthwhile. Getting all fleetmembers together, fitting the ships, scanning for hours, checking if the cargo is worth it, getting rid of killrights and grinding up sec status is a massive amount of work compared to afk boating through highsec.

Reward wasn't the proper way to describe what I meant. All I ask for is that suicideganking stays profitable if one is willing to put time and orginization into it, so that the profession doesn't die out completely.
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#30 - 2013-02-14 16:02:36 UTC
Core Researcher wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:
HeavensAngel wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:
Posting in an obvious "CCP, please patch stupid" thread.
They (tried) to patch stupid with the mining barges, now it's moved onto Freighters.

I have an awesome idea!
Why not pull your heads out of each others asses and fly smart.
Like bring ECM and Logistical support.
Not put billions of ISK worth of crap into it's hold.

Oh, that's too complicated?
OK then, keep feeding the gankers the killmail and loot, fly like complete morons.
Then go on the forums and constantly post over and over again, begging CCP to patch stupid...


wondering what ECM and Logistics will help when your freighter gets killed by an alpha strike ... but thats just my 2 cent

I've done it several times.
*Looks at inventory and skillsheet, then personal losses.*
Looks like I'm a Freighter and JF pilot, with no losses.
*Checks former indy corps killboard*
Sees several kills.

Huh, looks like it works to me.
So there is a proven way to defend against Freighter ganking.


Core Researcher wrote:


Dont pilot what you can't afford to lose.

I agree with this statement. I think freighters should be gankable. My issue is the cost of ganking one to the parties involved. Freighters should be gankable at a cost that is equivalent to the minimum comparative cost to the freigher pilot.

using the numbers above the average gankfleet should cost 2.3bn ISK to put together.

Smile


So first my quote answers your post. Im not against ganking. You are being overly hostile in your reaction to a cause of debate.

I would also like your explanation for the 'proven way to avoid gank'. This technique should invole no more than one pilot please.

This is an obvious "CCP patch stupid thread" and the way to prevent being ganked requires a support fleet. You asking for "This shouldn't involve more then 1 person" is stupid beyond measure. And yes, I'll explain this way. Get at least 8 friends, half in Falcons, half in Basilisks or Scimitars. Jump through gate, Falcons uncloak and lock target gank ships, Basilisks uncloak and chain up and preoverheat everything. Freighter begins to warp, logis begin to rep, and it takes coordination between the falcons and targets, spread jams when targets go GCC. It takes more then one volly per ship, unless you use like 20 alpha gank ships.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#31 - 2013-02-14 16:05:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Whitehound wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its currently 2.5 billion.

Scary when such info comes from Bat Country...

Why is that scary? They're one of the foremost authorities on the subject...

baltec1 just gave out the secret to avoiding freighter ganks. /thread

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Whitehound
#32 - 2013-02-14 16:10:50 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
It only takes 1 billion to destroy a 1.3-1.7 billion isk ship so there is that.


It only costs 20 Cents to destroy a 50 thousand dollar car. The isk tanking idea is as stupid as it sounds.

You sound like you have a clue. How do I explain immortal pod pilots to my car dealer?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Whitehound
#33 - 2013-02-14 16:13:23 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its currently 2.5 billion.

Scary when such info comes from Bat Country...

Could I please get a notification when the value changes? Thank you.

Why is that scary?

The hint is in the comment you have quoted. I have added it back into it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2013-02-14 16:22:41 UTC
Ok for those not following.

Empty hulls are never ganked unless the squad is so high on victory they dont care (these people dont last long as they are wasting money)

there are 2 ways to gank a freighter.
The alphanado (16 nados @110mil each)
and
the Bumping Blastos (only 7 blastos at ~100 mil each) but also includes 2 bump machs and a bump fleet stabber.
Now if the squads are specialized and trained to the max the costs drop significantly and the gank can be done for under 500 mil.

Now onto the loot.
The rng seems to settle on a 60-40 split against you.
So on average only 40 % of all stacks will drop.
So what this means is that if you stack all you may be passed on due to the risk

from this we find that the baseline is 1.25 bil in cargo must be hauled for a perfect gank to break even.
A new gank squad needs 1.75 bil to break even.

So if you exceed those numbers you are at risk.
Exceed them by 1 billion and they will be trying to gank you if possible.
Now each gank ship has between 10k and 15k ehp
so it is possible to protect against a blastos swarm with 2 alphanados of your own.
You must be able to kill the blastos with in 10seconds of it going criminal.
If you can kill one the freighter may survive kill 2 and it is garunteed to survive deep in hull.

Now you must deal with the bump ships.
How is up to you as they will not go suspect and are very adept at their job.
You may also wish to bring logi to fix the freighter so they can not come back with a fleet of gankalysts and get the loot at a minor extra cost.
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
#35 - 2013-02-14 16:22:44 UTC
Mai Khumm wrote:

This is an obvious "CCP patch stupid thread" and the way to prevent being ganked requires a support fleet. You asking for "This shouldn't involve more then 1 person" is stupid beyond measure. And yes, I'll explain this way. Get at least 8 friends, half in Falcons, half in Basilisks or Scimitars. Jump through gate, Falcons uncloak and lock target gank ships, Basilisks uncloak and chain up and preoverheat everything. Freighter begins to warp, logis begin to rep, and it takes coordination between the falcons and targets, spread jams when targets go GCC. It takes more then one volly per ship, unless you use like 20 alpha gank ships.


ok. So,

(a) if you are a freighter pilot and CCP say "" hey look that Core Researcher has somethinge lets double the EHP of freighters," why do you care so much? You get double EHP for nothing.

(b) a lot of freighters run solo - truckers of space. Why do you think it is reasonable for pilots to have an 8 ship fleet at their command everytime they haul?

(c) if i was going to use a fleet i would use 1 freighter and 1 webber. 8 ships is plain stupid. Unless your next response can answer these basic questions I call Troll.
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#36 - 2013-02-14 16:27:47 UTC
Core Researcher wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:

This is an obvious "CCP patch stupid thread" and the way to prevent being ganked requires a support fleet. You asking for "This shouldn't involve more then 1 person" is stupid beyond measure. And yes, I'll explain this way. Get at least 8 friends, half in Falcons, half in Basilisks or Scimitars. Jump through gate, Falcons uncloak and lock target gank ships, Basilisks uncloak and chain up and preoverheat everything. Freighter begins to warp, logis begin to rep, and it takes coordination between the falcons and targets, spread jams when targets go GCC. It takes more then one volly per ship, unless you use like 20 alpha gank ships.


ok. So,

(a) if you are a freighter pilot and CCP say "" hey look that Core Researcher has somethinge lets double the EHP of freighters," why do you care so much? You get double EHP for nothing.

(b) a lot of freighters run solo - truckers of space. Why do you think it is reasonable for pilots to have an 8 ship fleet at their command everytime they haul?

(c) if i was going to use a fleet i would use 1 freighter and 1 webber. 8 ships is plain stupid. Unless your next response can answer these basic questions I call Troll.

Instead of using proper precautions and common sense, you're asking CCP to "fix stupid" and in your case ignorant.

Thanks for proving my original point...

Good day sir. o7
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
#37 - 2013-02-14 16:55:33 UTC
Mai Khumm wrote:
Core Researcher wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:

This is an obvious "CCP patch stupid thread" and the way to prevent being ganked requires a support fleet. You asking for "This shouldn't involve more then 1 person" is stupid beyond measure. And yes, I'll explain this way. Get at least 8 friends, half in Falcons, half in Basilisks or Scimitars. Jump through gate, Falcons uncloak and lock target gank ships, Basilisks uncloak and chain up and preoverheat everything. Freighter begins to warp, logis begin to rep, and it takes coordination between the falcons and targets, spread jams when targets go GCC. It takes more then one volly per ship, unless you use like 20 alpha gank ships.


ok. So,

(a) if you are a freighter pilot and CCP say "" hey look that Core Researcher has somethinge lets double the EHP of freighters," why do you care so much? You get double EHP for nothing.

(b) a lot of freighters run solo - truckers of space. Why do you think it is reasonable for pilots to have an 8 ship fleet at their command everytime they haul?

(c) if i was going to use a fleet i would use 1 freighter and 1 webber. 8 ships is plain stupid. Unless your next response can answer these basic questions I call Troll.

Instead of using proper precautions and common sense, you're asking CCP to "fix stupid" and in your case ignorant.

Thanks for proving my original point...

Good day sir. o7


yep.I certainly proved something. Enough time wasted on you i think.

Jump freighters are an even bigger issue it seems from the replies so far.

it takes original calcs and adds 5bn more into the mix.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-02-14 16:59:48 UTC
No, freighters and jump freighters are fine. They do not need to be changed or fixed.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
#39 - 2013-02-14 17:01:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, freighters and jump freighters are fine. They do not need to be changed or fixed.


thank you your omnipotence, glad you could set us all straight with your reasoning and debate.
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#40 - 2013-02-14 17:05:32 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, freighters and jump freighters are fine. They do not need to be changed or fixed.

Don't fix something that isn't broken in the first place.
But fix stupid, incompetent and ignorance as they have a huge issue ATM...