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The venture, It's almost perfect but has one glaring flaw.
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Sedstr
#21 - 2013-02-14 12:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sedstr
With skills and fit, you can easy harvest gas in null with a venture.
If you have more than one venture harvesting the same cloud, thats a different story, but solo, a venture could afk nullsec gas harvesting if you were game....

2 x gas harvester II
proto cloak

med extender II
med f-s9
em ward field 2

shield power relay

2 x anti-thermal screen reinforcer I
field purger I.

stagger harvester startup.

...
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#22 - 2013-02-14 13:59:14 UTC
So you want the venture to be perfect at everything and have no drawbacks

do you know of a thing called balance
Yolo
Unknown Nation
#23 - 2013-02-14 15:06:47 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
So you want the venture to be perfect at everything and have no drawbacks

do you know of a thing called balance

So they make a specialiced ship for gas-harvesting, but if you gas-harvest, it blows up.
That does not sound that balance to me. :)

- since 2003, bitches
Everything forNothing
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-02-14 15:22:37 UTC
Sedstr wrote:
With skills and fit, you can easy harvest gas in null with a venture.
If you have more than one venture harvesting the same cloud, thats a different story, but solo, a venture could afk nullsec gas harvesting if you were game....

2 x gas harvester II
proto cloak

med extender II
med f-s9
em ward field 2

shield power relay

2 x anti-thermal screen reinforcer I
field purger I.

stagger harvester startup.



That fit won't work. You need scan probes + a rig. Ladar sites are quite hard to prob down even with perfect skills + sisters probes.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#25 - 2013-02-14 15:55:52 UTC
Everything forNothing wrote:

That fit won't work. You need scan probes + a rig. Ladar sites are quite hard to prob down even with perfect skills + sisters probes.

That is true unless you have scanning ship/alt to do scanning for you.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
StarStryder
Zero-Hour
#26 - 2013-02-14 17:11:33 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Everything forNothing wrote:

That fit won't work. You need scan probes + a rig. Ladar sites are quite hard to prob down even with perfect skills + sisters probes.

That is true unless you have scanning ship/alt to do scanning for you.


Which is not something a new'ish player should be expected to do. The ship description makes it sound like CCP are trying to encourage new players to venture (if you'll pardon the pun) out into 0.0 early in their career.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#27 - 2013-02-14 17:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
StarStryder wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Everything forNothing wrote:

That fit won't work. You need scan probes + a rig. Ladar sites are quite hard to prob down even with perfect skills + sisters probes.

That is true unless you have scanning ship/alt to do scanning for you.


Which is not something a new'ish player should be expected to do. The ship description makes it sound like CCP are trying to encourage new players to venture (if you'll pardon the pun) out into 0.0 early in their career.

I can hardly imagine a "new'ish player" to pay 20+mil for skill book and then wait a month or 2 until his support, fitting and scanning skills are high enough to fly gas harvesting venture.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
StarStryder
Zero-Hour
#28 - 2013-02-14 17:39:53 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
StarStryder wrote:
[quote=Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris][quote=Everything forNothing]
Which is not something a new'ish player should be expected to do. The ship description makes it sound like CCP are trying to encourage new players to venture (if you'll pardon the pun) out into 0.0 early in their career.

I can hardly imagine a "new'ish player" to pay 20+mil for skill book and then wait a month or 2 until his support, fitting and scanning skills are high enough to fly gas harvesting venture.


I never said CCP were consistent. If that is how much the book costs then it should be reduced. And a couple of months is nothing really.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#29 - 2013-02-14 17:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Any ship that can fit 6 or more gas cloud harvesters will outmine your Venture..pretty much any turret BC will work.

Why are you trying to use a t1 frigate for this job?

The gas mining skill at max will allow you to fit 5 gas miners.The skill is one gas miner per level of the skill. No ship in EVE can hold more than 5 gas miners no matter how many turret slots it has. it is a skill lmitation, not a ship limitation.

A max skilled venture can out mine 5 gas miner II's by about 6% so it is the highest possible yield for gas mining.

In addition it has a 5000m3 hold that now accepts gas as well as ore. which means it does not require a jetcan/container to mine into.

To the OP, I have never been hit by the gas explosion while mining gas. But I do not sit a zero from the cloud. gas cloud Harvestors have a range of 1500m, aren't the gas cloud explosions less than 1200m radius? That gives you a 300m buffer zone you can sit in and not get hit.

I remember this issue coming up years ago with mercoxit mining. The answer was "Why are you mining so close?"
Luc Chastot
#30 - 2013-02-14 18:15:56 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
StarStryder wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Everything forNothing wrote:

That fit won't work. You need scan probes + a rig. Ladar sites are quite hard to prob down even with perfect skills + sisters probes.

That is true unless you have scanning ship/alt to do scanning for you.


Which is not something a new'ish player should be expected to do. The ship description makes it sound like CCP are trying to encourage new players to venture (if you'll pardon the pun) out into 0.0 early in their career.

I can hardly imagine a "new'ish player" to pay 20+mil for skill book and then wait a month or 2 until his support, fitting and scanning skills are high enough to fly gas harvesting venture.


What skill book? Because the mining frig skill book is 30k.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#31 - 2013-02-14 18:19:23 UTC
StarStryder wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
StarStryder wrote:
[quote=Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris][quote=Everything forNothing]
Which is not something a new'ish player should be expected to do. The ship description makes it sound like CCP are trying to encourage new players to venture (if you'll pardon the pun) out into 0.0 early in their career.

I can hardly imagine a "new'ish player" to pay 20+mil for skill book and then wait a month or 2 until his support, fitting and scanning skills are high enough to fly gas harvesting venture.


I never said CCP were consistent. If that is how much the book costs then it should be reduced. And a couple of months is nothing really.

The venture was meant to have utility to both new and old players.

For the new players it not only replaced the mining cruisers/frigates but can easily out mine them.

For the veteran players, they now have the gas miner they have been asking for, as well as a ninja miner that can actually get in, mine and get out, with only a small risk of getting caught.

A max skilled venture with maxed out mining drones and drone rigs can pull in 980m3/min of ore. Not bad considering where you would use it, i.e. hostile territory, a mining barge, or exhumer, is a sitting duck. A ship that can pull in 980m3 (over half what a max skilled hulk can do) but costs so little, can actually be used to mine in low, null, or W-space, even when it is controlled by hostile forces. For example, mining in low sec a single 5000m3 load of Hedbergite is worth 1.4M isk and could be mined in a little over 5 minutes. Say with set up and drone travel time it takes you 10 minutes to fill your hold. Considering how hard the ship is to catch, you actually can now successfully mine in low sec.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#32 - 2013-02-14 18:43:20 UTC
I just want a third turret so it doesn't look so weird with only two miners on it.
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#33 - 2013-02-14 18:45:02 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
StarStryder wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Everything forNothing wrote:

That fit won't work. You need scan probes + a rig. Ladar sites are quite hard to prob down even with perfect skills + sisters probes.

That is true unless you have scanning ship/alt to do scanning for you.


Which is not something a new'ish player should be expected to do. The ship description makes it sound like CCP are trying to encourage new players to venture (if you'll pardon the pun) out into 0.0 early in their career.

I can hardly imagine a "new'ish player" to pay 20+mil for skill book and then wait a month or 2 until his support, fitting and scanning skills are high enough to fly gas harvesting venture.


What skill book? Because the mining frig skill book is 30k.


Gas Cloud Harvesting is about 25m. It isn't a noob-friendly skill and I don't think it was ever meant to be, given that it's seeded in very few places in empire anyway. I think it's only seeded in Thukker stations.
Bum Shadow
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-02-14 18:50:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Bum Shadow
Sedstr does it same as us. We have scan ships to scout the sites.

The venture is a mining ship not a scan ship.


While the point about noob ship might be true. Then if you're a "noob" stick to myko sites in highsec, or do the lowsec cyto sites which dont do damage to you.


The null is the none noob area where you need the tight fit resists and a dedicated scan ship.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-02-14 19:21:40 UTC
DJ P0N-3 wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:

What skill book? Because the mining frig skill book is 30k.


Gas Cloud Harvesting is about 25m. It isn't a noob-friendly skill and I don't think it was ever meant to be, given that it's seeded in very few places in empire anyway. I think it's only seeded in Thukker stations.


It's 21.6m sold by npc, not 25 m. You're not required to buy books resold in Jita, go to a starter system. 21.6m is nothing even for a noob. Many empire corps give skillbooks like that to members for free.
Everything forNothing
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-02-14 19:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Everything forNothing
Bum Shadow wrote:
Sedstr does it same as us. We have scan ships to scout the sites.

The venture is a mining ship not a scan ship.


While the point about noob ship might be true. Then if you're a "noob" stick to myko sites in highsec, or do the lowsec cyto sites which dont do damage to you.


The null is the none noob area where you need the tight fit resists and a dedicated scan ship.


I think ccp should get away from game mechanics that require more than one account.

Sure there are better ways to harvest gas with 2-3 accounts ( i used to use blops+cloaky hauler+cyno5 alt). But this Type of game play should not be restricted to people who are already "space rich". That's why i like the vulture so much even people who play casually can enjoy it.

and null is for new players aswell. Look at test and goons they have a lot of players joining the day they make an account. These players are having a blast flying rifters and salvaging for isk. These new bros get free skillbooks and some starting isk, in many ways 0.0 is alot better to learn in than high sec.Having one area of the game completely inaccessible to new players is just dumb. The only place where new players can't do anything are Wh's. But a few months can change that quick.


It's not like im asking for the moon or anything.

Kahega Amielden wrote:


The gas mining skill at max will allow you to fit 5 gas miners.The skill is one gas miner per level of the skill. No ship in EVE can hold more than 5 gas miners no matter how many turret slots it has. it is a skill lmitation, not a ship limitation.

A max skilled venture can out mine 5 gas miner II's by about 6% so it is the highest possible yield for gas mining.

In addition it has a 5000m3 hold that now accepts gas as well as ore. which means it does not require a jetcan/container to mine into.

To the OP, I have never been hit by the gas explosion while mining gas. But I do not sit a zero from the cloud. gas cloud Harvestors have a range of 1500m, aren't the gas cloud explosions less than 1200m radius? That gives you a 300m buffer zone you can sit in and not get hit.

I remember this issue coming up years ago with mercoxit mining. The answer was "Why are you mining so close?"


The gas clouds hit out to 100km. I've lost one cloaky hauler to that a long time ago.I duno if they ninja patched it. I'll try hanging out at max range.
Bum Shadow
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-02-14 19:33:24 UTC
Everything forNothing wrote:
I think ccp should get away from game mechanics that require more than one account.

Sure there are better ways to harvest gas with 2-3 accounts ( i used to use blops+cloaky hauler+cyno5 alt). But this Type of game play should not be restricted to people who are already "space rich". That's why i like the vulture so much even people who play casually can enjoy it.

It's not like im asking for the moon or anything.




Its not multi account mechanics! Its multi PLAYER mechanics!

This is an MMO (massively multiplayer) Not MMA (Massively multi account)


Its your choice if you want to cut out the multiplayer aspect, to do that you sub another account. But the cheaper more fun, easier and more effective way is to make some mates and get stuck in.

While solo play is fine, and possible you cannot expect to acomplish everything solo. Some aspects of the game as specifically designed for group play.

When you see these amazing huge fleet battles, those ships are controlled by separate players. Its not just 2 guys with 200 accounts each >.<




Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#38 - 2013-02-14 19:35:32 UTC
Everything forNothing wrote:
I think ccp should get away from game mechanics that require more than one account.

It is a massively MULTIPLAYER online game. You shouldn't be able to do everything solo. And to be honest, there is already plenty that you can do solo.

If we are talking about noobs not surviving cloud damage, we also need to stop comparing fits that require as many skills at level 5. How amny noobs are going to have gas mining 5 and astrometrics 5?

Friends
Everything forNothing
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-02-14 19:37:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Everything forNothing
Bum Shadow wrote:
Everything forNothing wrote:
I think ccp should get away from game mechanics that require more than one account.

Sure there are better ways to harvest gas with 2-3 accounts ( i used to use blops+cloaky hauler+cyno5 alt). But this Type of game play should not be restricted to people who are already "space rich". That's why i like the vulture so much even people who play casually can enjoy it.

It's not like im asking for the moon or anything.




Its not multi account mechanics! Its multi PLAYER mechanics!

This is an MMO (massively multiplayer) Not MMA (Massively multi account)


Its your choice if you want to cut out the multiplayer aspect, to do that you sub another account. But the cheaper more fun, easier and more effective way is to make some mates and get stuck in.

While solo play is fine, and possible you cannot expect to acomplish everything solo. Some aspects of the game as specifically designed for group play.

When you see these amazing huge fleet battles, those ships are controlled by separate players. Its not just 2 guys with 200 accounts each >.<


That's a good point. But still there should be a way to do it by yourself. EvE is a sandbox There should be as many valid ways to do the same task as possible. Each with their own benefit and risk.


Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Everything forNothing wrote:
I think ccp should get away from game mechanics that require more than one account.

It is a massively MULTIPLAYER online game. You shouldn't be able to do everything solo. And to be honest, there is already plenty that you can do solo.

If we are talking about noobs not surviving cloud damage, we also need to stop comparing fits that require as many skills at level 5. How amny noobs are going to have gas mining 5 and astrometrics 5?



This isn't just about newplayers. Even with a 50m skillpoint character the ship is too weak to survive what it was built to do.
Bum Shadow
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-02-14 19:40:37 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Everything forNothing wrote:
I think ccp should get away from game mechanics that require more than one account.

It is a massively MULTIPLAYER online game. You shouldn't be able to do everything solo. And to be honest, there is already plenty that you can do solo.

If we are talking about noobs not surviving cloud damage, we also need to stop comparing fits that require as many skills at level 5. How amny noobs are going to have gas mining 5 and astrometrics 5?


The fit that was posted top of this page, does require a few 5s. First off the gas miners are not NEEDED at 5. you can use the T1 varients. Shield upgrades IS needed at 5 though. And I believe possibly electronics and engineering. In realistic terms though its only 2 weeks.

The full fit in T2 varients takes maybe 4 weeks tops. Which considering its for nullsec gas mining to produce high end illegal drugs... Its not really a "starter" proffesion.

If you cannot use the venture in the null clouds, stick to the none damage dealing myko sites in high/low, or the lowsec cyto sites. These dont require any tank ability, which allows you more room for other things or a less SP intensive ship.


if you want to do higher end higher profit content, you need the higher tier equipment and skills. When you consider the fact that before a venture this used to be done in a tanky battlecruiser, the current skill requirements to properly fit the venture are actually extremely reasonable at a fraction of the cost too!
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