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Hi/Low Fantasy vs. Sci-Fi

First post
Author
Warpshade
Warped Industries
#41 - 2013-02-11 20:21:55 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Since scifi is a subcategory of fantasy...


NO!



YES!

Even the most 'realistically justified' SF is considered to be of the fantastical.

There is over 50 years of critical thinking and analysis to back this up.

See Brian W Aldiss' "Trillion Year Spree: A History of Science Fiction". http://www.amazon.com/Trillion-Year-Spree-History-Science/dp/0689118392

My other favorite parallel along these lines is that regular Cinema is actually a subset of Animation.


Science Fiction and Fantasy are both sub genres of fiction, no matter how hard you try to play with the semantics.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#42 - 2013-02-11 20:28:26 UTC
People play fantasy MMO's to escape from RL for a while.

People play Eve to plan revenge.

SWtoR tried to capture the escapist crowd, but those guys want something easy to "work" towards, end content that is clearly labeled and reachable without a whole lot of immersion shattering setbacks. Bioware tried to split the difference with some PvP and an open ended storyline.

In Pen and Paper RPG's sci-fi is a small fraction of the market. And hard sci-fi is a small subset of that fraction.

There is currently a movement called OSR, or Old School Renaissance, older table top gamers who support rules light, DM fiat, dangerous games. As far as I know its all fantasy based rules to this point. But it does mark a shift in the market away from "balanced" rules sets and the complexity that comes with them.

If table top games still serve as a precursor to MMO's this movement may indicate the potential for a fantasy based sandbox.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#43 - 2013-02-11 20:31:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Warpshade wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Since scifi is a subcategory of fantasy...


NO!



YES!

Even the most 'realistically justified' SF is considered to be of the fantastical.

There is over 50 years of critical thinking and analysis to back this up.

See Brian W Aldiss' "Trillion Year Spree: A History of Science Fiction". http://www.amazon.com/Trillion-Year-Spree-History-Science/dp/0689118392

My other favorite parallel along these lines is that regular Cinema is actually a subset of Animation.


Science Fiction and Fantasy are both sub genres of fiction, no matter how hard you try to play with the semantics.


True they are both fiction. But the posting is still correct. Without 'playing' with semantics.


EDIT: unless you are trying to say SF and Fantasy are equal which would be fallacious and ridiculous.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Ginger Barbarella
#44 - 2013-02-11 21:05:32 UTC
Diesel Phumes wrote:

For a reference, see baseball v. volleyball; some things are just more appealing to more people than other things.
*end edit*


Let's see..

Very fit young ladies is extemely tight bikini wear lunging around in the sand playing volleyball under a bright sun...

Marginally overweight dudes throwing a ball around and spitting tobacco juice all over the place...

Hmmm...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#45 - 2013-02-11 21:08:45 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Diesel Phumes wrote:

For a reference, see baseball v. volleyball; some things are just more appealing to more people than other things.
*end edit*


Let's see..

Very fit young ladies is extemely tight bikini wear lunging around in the sand playing volleyball under a bright sun...

Marginally overweight dudes
throwing a ball around and spitting tobacco juice all over the place...

Hmmm...



Overweight ? Where ? They all have to be able to run like hell.

A different word maybe ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-02-11 21:35:05 UTC
Outside of MMOs, science fiction and fantasy games seem to run neck and neck in sales. In the MMO world, WoW is the curve-busting singularity.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-02-11 22:03:57 UTC
Generally the setting alone isn't the largest factor on which games have more players. While some people prefer fighting aliens and shooting lasers to fighting goblins and swinging swords and vice versa, the structure of the game is what drives people in the most.

The reason why WoW has significantly more players is because it's gameplay is a lot more appealing to the general public. The game is an on-rails MMO which basically means that you are going to be directed to play the game in a few different ways. This means that players will rarely feel lost as to what they are suppose to do and will find the fun a lot quicker.

EVE is a 99% open sandbox. Botting, glitching, and RTM are basically the only things that aren't allowed in EVE. Everything else is alright with a very small number of exceptions. This means players don't really have a direction other than their own, which means it can take a while to find the part of the game you actually enjoy. Money making methods and skills are also extremely long term in EVE making it a more "hardcore" game for the lack of a better word.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Aracimia Wolfe
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2013-02-11 22:08:33 UTC
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"" Arthur C Clarke

Sci Fi or Fantasy the setting is immaterial, you could take WoW's lore and back story and reweave it into a far more brutal game, full gear loss, player crafted armour being the norm, much larger worl space but spawned missions instead of quests. Safe zones being a million times bigger than just the capital cities and starter zones. (And even they aren't always safe on a pvp server)

It's the game mechanics that make it not the settings.

So yes EvE could become larger than wow, if it utterly destroyed itself in the process. Praise be to CCP that it does not.

Kill it with Fire!

Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#49 - 2013-02-11 22:54:55 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
Say NO to Orks in space!!!!!!!!!!!


But a 40k space game would be the best game. Nothing gets the blood running like jury rigging an asteroid for re-entry. Nothing better than the fact that the same jury rigging makes a good ramming boat. ORKS DA BEST.
Aracimia Wolfe
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2013-02-11 22:56:07 UTC
Space Orks yes.

Space Orcs, No

You 'orrible Gitz

Kill it with Fire!

Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#51 - 2013-02-11 23:17:07 UTC
Quote:
Even the most 'realistically justified' SF is considered to be of the fantastical.
The distinction between Sci-Fi and Fantasy has little to do with the plausability.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Dheeradj Nurgle
Hoover Inc.
Snuffed Out
#52 - 2013-02-11 23:21:36 UTC
Aracimia Wolfe wrote:
Space Orks yes.

Space Orcs, No

You 'orrible Gitz



Oi Boyz, This one 'ere is a Giblet!
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#53 - 2013-02-11 23:25:19 UTC
In the world of published literature, Fantasy started outpacing SF around 1985.

Remember in 1978 even Anne McCaffrey's "The White Dragon" was a #1 NY Times Bestseller like forever.

(My bag is SF though)

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#54 - 2013-02-11 23:44:30 UTC
Aracimia Wolfe wrote:
Space Orks yes.

Space Orcs, No

You 'orrible Gitz



W T H(eck) ? What?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Aracimia Wolfe
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-02-12 00:41:37 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Aracimia Wolfe wrote:
Space Orks yes.

Space Orcs, No

You 'orrible Gitz



W T H(eck) ? What?


I refer you sir to the standard parlance of Orks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ork_(Warhammer_40,000)

The only time it's acceptable to say "It's not easy being green"

Kill it with Fire!

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#56 - 2013-02-12 00:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Aracimia Wolfe wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Aracimia Wolfe wrote:
Space Orks yes.

Space Orcs, No

You 'orrible Gitz



W T H(eck) ? What?


I refer you sir to the standard parlance of Orks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ork_(Warhammer_40,000)

The only time it's acceptable to say "It's not easy being green"


Ah ! Got it. Lol

Edit: I can't keep up with absolutely every aspect of Pop Culture at my age. I try, but everyone will miss something.

I was shocked this very afternoon when astronaut Buzz Aldrin actually Tweeted and referenced and compared Jack White to something even I didn't get ! As if he listened to his music his entire life or something.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#57 - 2013-02-12 01:41:07 UTC
I can't believe you called WoW high fantasy. What? That really should be a crime. Blink
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-02-12 01:46:46 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
I can't believe you called WoW high fantasy. What? That really should be a crime. Blink

Well, its high on something.
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#59 - 2013-02-12 02:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Shamus O'Reilly
Ever think that the game is not "popular" due to its niche or gameplay style, but due to the lack of marketing and the amount of people out there that KNOW of the game?


Lets face it: Who here tried EVE Online because they saw a TV advert on the sci-fi channel?

I see WoW commercials around at every release date for an expansion. I also see it in the gaming isles of computer stores. If i was a fantasy MMOer i'd know of WoW and try it out.

If i was a sci-fi gamer... I wouldn't know of EVE other than through word of mouth. The reason i began playing EVE is through a guy i platooned together with on World of Tanks ffs... He talked to me about it and introduced me to it. I was instantly HOOKED line and sinker. But until I started last year I have never even heard of the game.

Hell when he first started talking about EVE one day i thought it was another fantasy MMO i wanted to steer clear of Lol

Until i heard the words ---> Space, ship, pew, and sandbox in one sentence.


Blizzard started WoW off a budget made from the success of two EXTREMELY successful gaming series. (I had heard of WoW the week it came out...)
CCP started nearly from scratch.

I have to say if CCP had the budget of Blizzard and the current mindset of where the game should go you wouldn't be seeing only a solid 30,000 to 50,000 online daily but much more and much better server management and much more streamlined everything


Edit: Whether CCP with a Blizzard budget made EVE on the popularity level of WoW did the world would never know

Edit 2: You may also see WiS fully developed by now also Lol

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#60 - 2013-02-12 02:22:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:


Edit 2: You may also see WiS fully developed by now also Lol


Lol Pro-bab-ly.

You did get me to thinking though.

I discovered EVE sometime in mid-2008.

But upon further thought, I have absolutely no recollection of where I found out about it or anything of the sort. Really.

I never, ever click banner ads and I knew nobody who played, so it's become a complete mystery as to how I even became involved.


And although I spent many an afternoon from 1978 till 1982 watching friends play D&D, I had never ever touched an RPG, much less an MMORPG.

It is an enigma for me how I came to be a now 3 year player.

Weird.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882