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Hi/Low Fantasy vs. Sci-Fi

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Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-02-11 14:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel Phumes
*edit*
v.1.0.2
Anyone ever play Silent Death? I really really miss that game...

v.1.0.1
Will some genres of MMO games automatically draw from a larger potential playerbase than other MMO genres. We all know that Eve caters to a niche community, but given the right conditions and all, could a themepark version of Eve ever experience success similar to what Blizzard has experienced?

v.1.0
Do sword-and-board MMOs have the capability to become more popular than lasers-spaceship-technology MMOs

For a reference, see baseball v. volleyball; some things are just more appealing to more people than other things.
*end edit*


I've come here today to ask a few questions in an attempt to resolve the ultimate question.

The big one: Could a game like Eve Online ever receive more subscriptions than a game like WoW? Could a sci-fi MMO ever dominate the industry?

Eve Online (sci-fi) and WoW (high-fantasy) are at opposite ends of the "nerd" spectrum. I, personally, love high-fantasy type MMOs above sci-fi type MMOs. If there was a game in existence, which was both a high-fantasy game and had the culture of Eve Online, I would probably be playing it instead.

Please, by all means, feel free to contribute anything meaningful.
Tazer Ashpool
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-02-11 14:22:52 UTC
What is this I don't even..


Niche game is niche..
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2013-02-11 14:23:50 UTC
Since scifi is a subcategory of fantasy, no.
It would be pretty weird if the subset was larger than the superset. Blink
Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-11 14:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel Phumes
Tazer Ashpool wrote:
What is this I don't even..


Niche game is niche..


Yes, but there have been others such as Star Wars.

I understand a niche, and I'm trying to further understand the MMORPG markets. So in this pursuit of curiousity I'm trying to determine if there's as much mass-appeal for lasers and spaceships as there is for swords and boards (albeit in a laser and spaceship forum).
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2013-02-11 14:33:28 UTC
WoW is not high fantasy.

"Nerd Spectrum" is a meaningless buzzword.

How can anything meaningful be added to this?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-02-11 14:33:33 UTC
Technically they are the same thing.
It's just easier to spot the links between fantasy themed games and thier mythological roots than it is with sci-fi.

The setting change, the descriptive terms are changed.
But ultimately the stories are the same now as they were when they were told around the campfires 3000+ yrs ago.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-02-11 14:37:20 UTC
Yes... see, at one point there was this viewpoint that fantasy could never really be as successful as sci fi in movies, but then in recent years there have been a string of good ones that got everyone's attention. Right now? The reverse is true for gaming. Most of the best games are fantasy and the like while a lot of the worst are sci fi, ESPECIALLY when it comes to MMOs. In fact, MMOs in general have been largely failed to catch any real appeal. Now EVE is a good game, not bad by any means, however there are a lot of areas it falls short on for many new players. Anything from control scheme to a rather ugly UI, etc. Things like that are what hold a game back, not a genre. Likely a big reason why CCP works so hard to try and improve on the UI despite the long time players long being used to it.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-02-11 14:39:09 UTC
You know, I hate when people do this...but ima do this too right now because it fits:

-Posting in a stealth "EVE would get so many more subs if" thread!!!!-

There, i did it, i feel dirty, but somehow oddly liberated......Twisted
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#9 - 2013-02-11 14:41:37 UTC
You actually think the difference between WoW and EVE that makes one orders of magnitude more popular is that one has elves and one has spaceships?

Also, fantasy and sci-fi are not the same thing. Fantasy is about alternate worlds. Sci-Fi is about our world. See Star Wars vs Star Trek.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#10 - 2013-02-11 14:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
In the 50's, "high fantasy" was a minor genre and SF ruled pop culture. That shfited along the 60s and 70s, and currently the genres split differenlty each area. Fantasy/high fantasy rule cinema, SF rules TV, high fantasy rules the MMO market, Fantasy stands above SF in books, high fantasy and fantasy rule over SF in Asian comic and western comic favors fantasy and SF over high fantasy.

So IMO there is not a simple rule to determine what genre is "best" in each medium. I think it really is something that depends upon creators. Elves, per se, are not more attractive than aliens, albeit admittedly true SF carries a higher entry barrier than fantasy or most of high fantasy.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-02-11 14:42:43 UTC
how about both, with a bit of steampunk mixed?

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#12 - 2013-02-11 14:47:00 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
how about both, with a bit of steampunk mixed?


Guild Wars 2 is a good instance about adding some SF to a fantasy game... They refuse to call it science and it is no science, but the Asura are almost scientists... and frankly, firearms and steam power are an interesting theme for a fantasy game.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-02-11 14:51:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Since scifi is a subcategory of fantasy, no.
It would be pretty weird if the subset was larger than the superset. Blink


Fantasy and science fiction, are both subcategories of fiction...
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#14 - 2013-02-11 14:54:36 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
You actually think the difference between WoW and EVE that makes one orders of magnitude more popular is that one has elves and one has spaceships?


Well said. I think the real reason is thempark vs sandbox. Walt Disney wouldn't have made billions if Disney land was made of sand :) .

Another poster summed it up in another thread where he said he could go afk to take care of his newborn in WoW without losing anything where as that's not a god idea in EVE.

If "seeting" (sci-fi vs Fantasy) was a real issue, why aren't their more fantasy MMOs with WoWs sub numbers?

Quote:

Also, fantasy and sci-fi are not the same thing. Fantasy is about alternate worlds. Sci-Fi is about our world. See Star Wars vs Star Trek.


Well said part deux.

While i don't think it's the prime factor, setting is important. I think more gamers prefer alternate worlds more than "what our own world could be". It's not the only way gamers (who like interactive entertainment) tend to be different from average movie go-ers (who tend to prefer passive/spectator style entertainment)..
Tazer Ashpool
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-02-11 15:08:07 UTC
Game mechanics > FLUFF. NO other game is as complex and Sandboxy as EVE....most players don't even grasp what other people do when they log in to TQ (and they are not suppose to know either) There are a lot of ways to play eve. You can even play it at a themepark level...

IMHO when you have the kind of game mechanics and infratructure built as EvE has (and bleeding edge graphics) the fluff itself becomes unimportant. I would easily play games of eve's magnitude and complexity with sword and boardy themes and fluff.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-02-11 15:10:23 UTC
Say NO to Orks in space!!!!!!!!!!!

No Worries
Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-02-11 15:18:07 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
You actually think the difference between WoW and EVE that makes one orders of magnitude more popular is that one has elves and one has spaceships?

Also, fantasy and sci-fi are not the same thing. Fantasy is about alternate worlds. Sci-Fi is about our world. See Star Wars vs Star Trek.


Absolutely.



Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-02-11 15:24:13 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Also, fantasy and sci-fi are not the same thing. Fantasy is about alternate worlds. Sci-Fi is about our world. See Star Wars vs Star Trek.


Fantasy is Fiction, because it's non factual.

Sigurd, Arthur, Hercules, Robin Hood are all examples of Fantasy based on legend and mythology.
They all represent ideals to strive for, Sigurd & Hercules are all about heroism and overcoming obstacles, and those 2 tales are seperated by about 3000 years. Arthur & Robin Hood represent tales of virtue, justice and equality seperated by a few hundred years.

Star Trek isn't so very different from the legends of Jason & the Argonauts
Star Wars isn't so very different from the Nibelungenlied

Klingon and Minbari & Elf and Orc are just 4 "non human" races, and Tolkien could have just as easily used Klingon as a descriptive term instead of Orc.
Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-02-11 15:27:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel Phumes
If nothing else, many people here today will learn to accurately use words which have the potential to spark heated nerd debate. RAWR. In all serious though, I do appreciate becoming enlightened (I always laugh a lil' inside when I witness people using words in the wrong context).
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-02-11 15:49:17 UTC
Girls like fantasy, boys like sci-fi and fantasy. Some boys will play games because they have girls.

You need to be a particularly dedicated nerd to play eve online.
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