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Why all the hate against Hisec?
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UddWilliam
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-02-12 04:14:30 UTC
Just because of the EVE philosophy - making a cold, harsh place and everyone is against everyone.
That's EVE. And that's why EVE is so good for those have priate mentality and so bad for casual players - the majority in the hi-sec.

The unforgiving death punishment sperate most of the hi-secer from low-secer and null-secer. Pvpers want to blow up hi-secer's ships and even their tiny npc safehouse, but current mechanism doesn't make it (except for suicide ganking). This doesn't fullfill their priate mentality, which is encouraged in EVE. That's what they are "hate" for.

And to clearify, I think this topic should be talking about carebear, not those who put their mains in low-sec and put their alts in hi-sec for missioning.

Today EVE is at an embarrassed point - making EVE more casual-friendly will ruin hardcore's life while making stuff to please hardcores will do no good to attract people to come and play. If CCP try to drive out hi-sec players to some sort of forced-pvp, then these players will be ruined and leave, and EVE is done. You and I won't have a place to stand in TQ.

The ironic thing is that Incarna distaster did have a hit on CCP's income and it shows that EVE is not so profitable to keep their financial healthy and they need many more new subscribers.

But don't expect CCP will change this philosophy for attracting new players because it's the base of EVE, and it's a philosophy that deeply implanted in CCP and current hardcores of this game.
It incidentally makes EVE so successful to meet such niche demand and so greate game for those who loves the current sandbox style, and makes EVE so bad to attract new potential EVE players (not returned players) that CCP wants now. Just because casual players are always the major of the game market.

EVE is just an pure art, not a successful product for everyone.
yer mammy
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-02-12 05:25:57 UTC
it's the people in high sec that make high sec so bad.
Josef Djugashvilis
#83 - 2013-02-12 10:56:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
yer mammy wrote:
it's the people in high sec that make high sec so bad.



It is the whingers, (it's not fair, 'they' will not play the way I demand that they do) where ever they play in Eve, that are bad.

This is not a signature.
Tora Bushido
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#84 - 2013-02-12 11:12:33 UTC
When our spies relay the mails from our targets, we often see messages like "Guys, head back to nul sec, its more safe there". And not long ago we ganked someone, who was all cool about it, but still surprised. 'I make it all trough nul sec and low sec to be ganked in high sec.....' he lolled... Lol

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Cari Cullejen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-02-16 10:56:34 UTC
Go ahead CCP nerf highsec, I dare you! I DOUBLE dare you!

What are you looking for here? Read the post!
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#86 - 2013-02-16 11:22:49 UTC
While the biggest problem are the hiseccers themselves, there are a few outstanding issues specifically related to sec status and regions:

- hisec has the most reward and capacity for industrial production but 0 risk
- mineral resources don't deplete even in the most populated areas in game (roids respawn after DT)
- hisec has high-income, exclusive 0-risk PVE content, and same PVE content high-risk areas (DED sites)
- hisec systems forming a continuous area prevent piracy from being a viable profession

Other issues commonly affecting hisec discussions are the numerous issues with NPC corps, and the fundamentally detached nature of mission content, which does not belong to a sandbox in it's current form.

About the hate, it's a natural reaction from fans when outsiders come to their game without even making an effort to understand it, and wanting to change it to meet their expectations based on other games.

.
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#87 - 2013-02-16 12:55:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ankles McGlashan
UddWilliam wrote:
Just because of the EVE philosophy - making a cold, harsh place and everyone is against everyone.
That's EVE. And that's why EVE is so good for those have priate mentality and so bad for casual players - the majority in the hi-sec.[/b]


that's only part of eve. not everyone is against everyone else, the market is an example of that and the market hubs were in part formed by access to agents. that implies that casual players are an integral part of eve.

unfortunately too many eve players fall victim to ridiculous libertarian fallacies. even if you never enter high sec and make a living through piracy you are still a high sec beneficiary because your loot was likely traded or maybe even manufactured there.

maybe you instead make your money ratting or running anomalies in your sov space, well you would presumably be shipping those officer modules back up to highsec in order to trade them on the market for more common goods and materials that are less common in nullsec.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#88 - 2013-02-16 13:04:06 UTC
The bad feeling comes because hi-seccers just don't comprehend how privileged they are. They're the equivalent of Mitt Romney saying that if poor people don't want to be poor, they should just borrow a couple of million bucks from their dad, go to an Ivy League college and set up their own business. If money runs short, they should just sell a few grand worth of shares from their inheritence!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Josef Djugashvilis
#89 - 2013-02-16 13:06:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The bad feeling comes because hi-seccers just don't comprehend how privileged they are. They're the equivalent of Mitt Romney saying that if poor people don't want to be poor, they should just borrow a couple of million bucks from their dad, go to an Ivy League college and set up their own business. If money runs short, they should just sell a few grand worth of shares from their inheritence!


How do you know what I do, or do not comprehend?

This is not a signature.
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#90 - 2013-02-16 13:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ankles McGlashan
Malcanis wrote:
The bad feeling comes because hi-seccers just don't comprehend how privileged they are.


there's no such thing as a hi-seccer and therefore no privilege. the entire area is open to all players.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#91 - 2013-02-16 13:20:54 UTC
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The bad feeling comes because hi-seccers just don't comprehend how privileged they are.


there's no such thing as a hi-seccer and therefore no privilege. the entire area is open to all players.


"There's no such thing as ship imbalances because anyone can train any ship!"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#92 - 2013-02-16 13:21:59 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The bad feeling comes because hi-seccers just don't comprehend how privileged they are. They're the equivalent of Mitt Romney saying that if poor people don't want to be poor, they should just borrow a couple of million bucks from their dad, go to an Ivy League college and set up their own business. If money runs short, they should just sell a few grand worth of shares from their inheritence!


How do you know what I do, or do not comprehend?


Well OK, maybe you know how privileged you are and just don't care? That's not going to make you any friends either.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#93 - 2013-02-16 13:28:01 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The bad feeling comes because hi-seccers just don't comprehend how privileged they are.


there's no such thing as a hi-seccer and therefore no privilege. the entire area is open to all players.


"There's no such thing as ship imbalances because anyone can train any ship!"


I said nothing about balance, I just pointed out that there is no privilege in highsec as everyone has access.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#94 - 2013-02-16 13:31:26 UTC
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The bad feeling comes because hi-seccers just don't comprehend how privileged they are.


there's no such thing as a hi-seccer and therefore no privilege. the entire area is open to all players.


"There's no such thing as ship imbalances because anyone can train any ship!"


I said nothing about balance, I just pointed out that there is no privilege in highsec as everyone has access.


'Privilege' is an unearned advantage. Free stations certainly count here.

Also, not everyone has access to hi-sec.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-02-16 13:37:26 UTC
@Malcanis
Its more like people living in Africa complaining that they're less well off and less safe than people living in Europe, despite having more natural resources. To which I'd say, well just move to Europe/highsec if you want more money and safety!
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#96 - 2013-02-16 13:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ankles McGlashan
Malcanis wrote:
'Privilege' is an unearned advantage. Free stations certainly count here.

Also, not everyone has access to hi-sec.


Those free stations are available to you also. If you can think of a reason you might not be able to access them then I can suggest a solution.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#97 - 2013-02-16 13:43:17 UTC
stock reply #2
because highseccers play the game in the wrong way

stock misconception #7946514
Nulsec should be more profitable than highsec
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-02-16 13:46:54 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
stock reply #2
because highseccers play the game in the wrong way

stock misconception #7946514
Nulsec should be more profitable than highsec


It is. The missions, Incursions etc pay out more, the ore is better and more plentiful, there's better exploration sites.

All it needs to complete the Space Africa theme is much lower tax rates compared to Space Europe.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#99 - 2013-02-16 13:53:43 UTC
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
'Privilege' is an unearned advantage. Free stations certainly count here.

Also, not everyone has access to hi-sec.


Those free stations are available to you also. If you can think of a reason you might not be able to access them then I can suggest a solution.


So you'd be OK with CCP giving the Amarr FW guys 20x as many LP as minmatar for their activities because everyone can join amarr FW if they really want to?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#100 - 2013-02-16 14:06:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So you'd be OK with CCP giving the Amarr FW guys 20x as many LP as minmatar for their activities because everyone can join amarr FW if they really want to?


again, you're talking about balance when I'm talking about privilege. quite obviously I could resign and join the amarr side after some standings repair.

if I chose to remain loyal to the minmatar side then that would be an arbitrary and self-imposed restriction on my gameplay where I have chosen to put myself at an economic disadvantage because I have other reasons, perhaps because I feel that choice is more in the spirit of the game.

likewise those who wish to be self-sufficient in null may do so at an economic disadvantage. if that is making anyone unhappy about playing then I suggest they change their ways and instead leverage the advantage they get from controlling that territory in combination with the benefits of high sec manufacture and trading.