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Mining Barge SP Reimbursement

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Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#121 - 2013-02-11 00:41:45 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Thinking about people in less advantageous positions.

Would you agree that my corp is in a less advantageous position as yours? Clearly my corp is paying attention. If you're not paying attention after the ship balancing and recent changes, you're likely not going to pay attention to begin with; no amount of flashing text and bright colors are going to get the message across.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2013-02-11 00:47:32 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
Thinking about people in less advantageous positions.

Would you agree that my corp is in a less advantageous position as yours? Clearly my corp is paying attention. If you're not paying attention after the ship balancing and recent changes, you're likely not going to pay attention to begin with; no amount of flashing text and bright colors are going to get the message across.


Read my post before this one. No legitimate way that you can say those aren't possibilities.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#123 - 2013-02-11 00:53:11 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Read my post before this one. No legitimate way that you can say those aren't possibilities.

So when you come back to an MMO that has regular expansions and patches, you don't bother figuring out what changed?

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
stoicfaux
#124 - 2013-02-11 01:03:08 UTC
Too bad all this energy/trolling wasn't directed into convincing CCP to provide a non-miner version of the Orca, i.e. an Orca variant that focused on hauling/mobile base attributes. Especially given how popular/useful/practical the standard Orca is.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-02-11 01:31:48 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
Read my post before this one. No legitimate way that you can say those aren't possibilities.

So when you come back to an MMO that has regular expansions and patches, you don't bother figuring out what changed?


The patch notes are obvious and easy the check. These changes are not so easy. Really, there is no reason to fight against making them more visible. Zero, zilch, nadda.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#126 - 2013-02-11 01:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Hey look. You still don't understand the concept of Sunk cost, and when it became clear that nobody supported you in your campaign (in the other thread) to untrain skills you intentionally trained, you decided to make a new thread.

So surprising.


You trained the pre-requisite skills for the Orca. You can fly the Orca. Any changes to the pre-requisite skills for the orca are irrelevant, as you already have the benefit (flying an orca) at the cost you agreed to (the skills you trained).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2013-02-11 01:52:27 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
Read my post before this one. No legitimate way that you can say those aren't possibilities.

So when you come back to an MMO that has regular expansions and patches, you don't bother figuring out what changed?


The patch notes are obvious and easy the check. These changes are not so easy. Really, there is no reason to fight against making them more visible. Zero, zilch, nadda.

The dev blogs are accessible in the exact same place as the patch notes.
If anyone chooses not to read either that's their problem.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#128 - 2013-02-11 01:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
RubyPorto wrote:
Hey look. You still don't understand the concept of Sunk cost, and when it became clear that nobody supported you in your campaign (in the other thread) to untrain skills you intentionally trained, you decided to make a new thread.

So surprising.


You trained the pre-requisite skills for the Orca. You can fly the Orca. Any changes to the pre-requisite skills for the orca are irrelevant, as you already have the benefit (flying an orca) at the cost you agreed to (the skills you trained).


Actually check back before you complain that I made a new thread. I didn't create the previous thread, and the other the other thread was regarding the Iteron and was not anything to do with reimbursing SP for the Orca.

And now you've added your 2 cents worth into the sea of opposing opinions on this issue. And after reading through this new thread hopefully you are now big enough to realise that this is a legitimate complaint despite the fact you may not agree with it.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2013-02-11 01:57:37 UTC
No, it's not a legitimate complaint.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
No Alibi
Sometimes Here
#130 - 2013-02-11 01:58:40 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
over a month of their time was completely worthless to them now?



And how is worthless?

They got to fly the Orca before the change.
They get to fly it afterwards.

From their perspective, /nothing/ has changed.

What this really boils down to is:
'Waah! they get to do something more easily than I got to.'

That's all.

Do you complain when you go to MacDonalds, and find out they cut the price the day before? When you had a burger the week before and had to pay the higher price?

I hate it when that happens. Maybe they should just give everyone 2 mil SP everytime they make a change, One way to kill hi secShocked

P.S> No matter when you go to mickey D's... you will pay more than you expectedBig smile

I fly by the seat of my pants, No wonder my ass is always on fire!
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#131 - 2013-02-11 01:59:53 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, it's not a legitimate complaint.


That is your opinion, although I don't think your complaint of my complaint is legitimate either. hehe
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2013-02-11 02:01:33 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
Read my post before this one. No legitimate way that you can say those aren't possibilities.

So when you come back to an MMO that has regular expansions and patches, you don't bother figuring out what changed?


The patch notes are obvious and easy the check. These changes are not so easy. Really, there is no reason to fight against making them more visible. Zero, zilch, nadda.

The dev blogs are accessible in the exact same place as the patch notes.
If anyone chooses not to read either that's their problem.


Except dev blogs aren't clearly laid out to be "upcoming changes to the game" or anything like that. Again, no reason not to adjust this. Providing good customer support is not the customers problem. Ever. Its the customer's responsibility to use it once its provided, but right now, the visibility of these things are low, even on the forums. Even on the dev blogs. You really have to search to find this stuff, and in fact you have to know what you're looking for in the first place. That isn't a good thing. Give me one good reason you're against this sort of thing rather than "oh, its their fault, lol"
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#133 - 2013-02-11 02:02:42 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Hey look. You still don't understand the concept of Sunk cost, and when it became clear that nobody supported you in your campaign (in the other thread) to untrain skills you intentionally trained, you decided to make a new thread.

So surprising.


You trained the pre-requisite skills for the Orca. You can fly the Orca. Any changes to the pre-requisite skills for the orca are irrelevant, as you already have the benefit (flying an orca) at the cost you agreed to (the skills you trained).


Actually check back before you complain that I made a new thread. I didn't create the previous thread, and the other the other thread was regarding the Iteron and was not anything to do with reimbursing SP for the Orca.

And now you've added your 2 cents worth into the sea of opposing opinions on this issue. And after reading through this new thread hopefully you are now big enough to realise that this is a legitimate complaint despite the fact you may not agree with it.


I didn't say you created the other thread, you were making the exact same complaints about the Orca in the other thread, and you still don't understand the concept of sunk cost.

It is not a legitimate complaint, because you got exactly what you paid for (the ability to fly an orca), at the time you paid for it (when you finished training for it), at a price you were willing to pay for it (the time you spent training for it). All of those things are still true, and (assuming that there aren't any time machines), nothing will change those things. That's how Sunk costs work.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2013-02-11 02:06:42 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Except dev blogs aren't clearly laid out to be "upcoming changes to the game" or anything like that.

Except that... they are? WTF do you think is the purpose of dev blogs? Have you even read any of them?

Aren Madigan wrote:
Again, no reason not to adjust this. Providing good customer support is not the customers problem. Ever. Its the customer's responsibility to use it once its provided

Well I'm glad we agree...

Aren Madigan wrote:
but right now, the visibility of these things are low, even on the forums. Even on the dev blogs. You really have to search to find this stuff, and in fact you have to know what you're looking for in the first place. That isn't a good thing. Give me one good reason you're against this sort of thing rather than "oh, its their fault, lol"

No, you don't. The dev blogs are ******* easy to find. Stop being ridiculous.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2013-02-11 02:07:27 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, it's not a legitimate complaint.


That is your opinion, although I don't think your complaint of my complaint is legitimate either. hehe

It's the truth, not merely my opinion.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2013-02-11 02:07:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Aren Madigan
RubyPorto wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Hey look. You still don't understand the concept of Sunk cost, and when it became clear that nobody supported you in your campaign (in the other thread) to untrain skills you intentionally trained, you decided to make a new thread.

So surprising.


You trained the pre-requisite skills for the Orca. You can fly the Orca. Any changes to the pre-requisite skills for the orca are irrelevant, as you already have the benefit (flying an orca) at the cost you agreed to (the skills you trained).


Actually check back before you complain that I made a new thread. I didn't create the previous thread, and the other the other thread was regarding the Iteron and was not anything to do with reimbursing SP for the Orca.

And now you've added your 2 cents worth into the sea of opposing opinions on this issue. And after reading through this new thread hopefully you are now big enough to realise that this is a legitimate complaint despite the fact you may not agree with it.


I didn't say you created the other thread, you were making the exact same complaints about the Orca in the other thread, and you still don't understand the concept of sunk cost.

It is not a legitimate complaint, because you got exactly what you paid for (the ability to fly an orca), at the time you paid for it (when you finished training for it), at a price you were willing to pay for it (the time you spent training for it). All of those things are still true, and (assuming that there aren't any time machines), nothing will change those things. That's how Sunk costs work.


By that logic, they shouldn't refund for removed skills either. Those were the costs at the time and they aren't stopping you from doing something after their removal. Gotta have more reason than that unless you're against those sort of reimbursements too.

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

No, you don't. The dev blogs are ******* easy to find. Stop being ridiculous.


OK then, give me a search term that would reveal every dev blog from the last six months with every planned change announced during that time, then you can call me ridiculous. And nope, "changes" isn't it.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#137 - 2013-02-11 02:08:06 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
The Orca is a pretty straight forward situation.

But what really bakes my noodle is trying to figure out the Rorqual. It's a completely new set of prerequisites with a lot of questions as to what skills CCP will be adding or refunding, as the case may be.

Mr Epeen Cool


Pretty clear to me.

If you have 0 SP and want to fly a Rorq post patch, you will have to train all of those new pre-reqs.
If you can fly a Rorq now, you will not need to train anything new.
If you have the Capital Industrial Ship skill installed, you will be able to train it at will, regardless of what new pre-requisites you might posses (or not).

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2583413#post2583413

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2013-02-11 02:09:52 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
By that logic, they shouldn't refund for removed skills either. Those were the costs at the time and they aren't stopping you from doing something after their removal. Gotta have more reason than that unless you're against those sort of reimbursements too.

Uh no, because removed skills are taking something away from the player that the player spent time developing.
Nothing is being taken away from you here.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#139 - 2013-02-11 02:12:40 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

I didn't say you created the other thread, you were making the exact same complaints about the Orca in the other thread, and you still don't understand the concept of sunk cost.

It is not a legitimate complaint, because you got exactly what you paid for (the ability to fly an orca), at the time you paid for it (when you finished training for it), at a price you were willing to pay for it (the time you spent training for it). All of those things are still true, and (assuming that there aren't any time machines), nothing will change those things. That's how Sunk costs work.


By that logic, they shouldn't refund for removed skills either. Those were the costs at the time and they aren't stopping you from doing something after their removal. Gotta have more reason than that unless you're against those sort of reimbursements too.



Nope. When they remove skills, you no longer gain the benefit of those skills. The combination of the first clause "you got exactly what you paid for" and the next sentence "All those things are still true" is not accurate in the case of removed skills, because you no longer get what you paid for.

The paranthetical is not meant to imply that that is the exclusive benefit of the skill you trained.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2013-02-11 02:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aren Madigan
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
By that logic, they shouldn't refund for removed skills either. Those were the costs at the time and they aren't stopping you from doing something after their removal. Gotta have more reason than that unless you're against those sort of reimbursements too.

Uh no, because removed skills are taking something away from the player that the player spent time developing.
Nothing is being taken away from you here.


Except not really if they can do everything they could do before. All they lost is time, and some SP which is actually a favor since it reduces their clone cost. Such as with the learning skills. Everyone ended up with the benefits of them, but there still were reimbursements, yet nothing really changed for those that had them.