These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Mining Barge SP Reimbursement

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-02-10 22:36:24 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
No, it would not be acceptable. Games change. Just because a change happened that someone doesnt like, they should not be reimbursed in anyway.

Just becasue a ship gets nerfed/buffed in EVE, does not mean you should be compensated
Just becasue a Warrior in WoW gets nerfed/buffed does not mean you should be compensated


In WoW if there's a significant change, usually talents get refunded... and that's with something that's almost no time investment. I would think something that has far more time investment would be a little more deserving of one. Which, is kind of the thing. It isn't just a nerf or buff, its a complete change in the requirements of a skill. Something that could have been used for other things that suddenly translates into A LOT of wasted time. So it isn't an unreasonable request in the slightest. Its just a matter of if one agrees with it or not. Is it ok to basically tell someone that over a month of their time was completely worthless to them now? I have trouble saying yes to that.
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#42 - 2013-02-10 22:37:00 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Ok, now just imagine you are a new player looking at training an orca. You really want it to haul as it is the best ship in a lot of situations for hauling goods. You also think it would be useful as a mobile command platform. You have no intention to mine and hate the idea of mining though. The current choice you would face it to wait 6 or maybe more months for CCP to implement these changes, or alternatively delay your training for 6 months.

I would personally delay training for 6 months enless I really needed the orca for some immediate purpose. Also imagine how pissed those newbs will be who don't read this forum and train for the orca under the current regime.


Changes like this have happened several times in the past & we've never had skillpoints reimbursed. If a person isn't reading the forums then chances are they will never be aware of this change anyway. Skillpoints should never be reimbursed because of changes unless the skill is removed entirely.


dont say people who dont read forums should suffer. its the companies responsibility to inform customers about product changes man.

Legba
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#43 - 2013-02-10 22:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
I am sure there will be those who disagree with this also, and if that is the case than I respect that view, and would kindly ask for others to respect opposing views also.
There's a reason why the other thread, which you were active in, got moved to Skill Discussions.

Could you show some respect as well and not go and create additional threads, especially in the wrong sub-forum. Thanks.

...
Judging by your recent posts on this issue, that's quite an ironic choice of response from you. but I'll bite;

...
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#44 - 2013-02-10 22:40:54 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
over a month of their time was completely worthless to them now?



And how is worthless?

They got to fly the Orca before the change.
They get to fly it afterwards.

From their perspective, /nothing/ has changed.

What this really boils down to is:
'Waah! they get to do something more easily than I got to.'

That's all.

Do you complain when you go to MacDonalds, and find out they cut the price the day before? When you had a burger the week before and had to pay the higher price?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2013-02-10 22:41:14 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
dont say people who dont read forums should suffer. its the companies responsibility to inform customers about product changes man.

And they are informing the customers. They gave customers a specific location where they inform them of these changes. It's the customer's responsibility to keep themselves informed.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#46 - 2013-02-10 22:41:28 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Ok, now just imagine you are a new player looking at training an orca. You really want it to haul as it is the best ship in a lot of situations for hauling goods. You also think it would be useful as a mobile command platform. You have no intention to mine and hate the idea of mining though. The current choice you would face it to wait 6 or maybe more months for CCP to implement these changes, or alternatively delay your training for 6 months.

I would personally delay training for 6 months enless I really needed the orca for some immediate purpose. Also imagine how pissed those newbs will be who don't read this forum and train for the orca under the current regime.


Changes like this have happened several times in the past & we've never had skillpoints reimbursed. If a person isn't reading the forums then chances are they will never be aware of this change anyway. Skillpoints should never be reimbursed because of changes unless the skill is removed entirely.


dont say people who dont read forums should suffer. its the companies responsibility to inform customers about product changes man.



Uh, Dev blogs /are/ the company informing the customers.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#47 - 2013-02-10 22:42:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Pohbis wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
[quote=Pohbis][quote=Rebecha Pucontis]I am sure there will be those who disagree with this also, and if that is the case than I respect that view, and would kindly ask for others to respect opposing views also.
There's a reason why the other thread, which you were active in, got moved to Skill Discussions.

Could you show some respect as well and not go and create additional threads, especially in the wrong sub-forum. Thanks.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2013-02-10 22:42:40 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
eve is a product we pay for. it goes out advertised as something we decide we want to pay for. if the skills are changed and i trained for them... payed money to be able to train these chosen skills; I dont think they should EVER just be taken away from me..... and if so: the LEAST i demand is SP reimbursement. who does not agree with me hands up so i can laugh.

And you'd be right in demanding reimbursement if skills were taken away from you.
Except that has nothing to do with what's happening here.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#49 - 2013-02-10 22:43:09 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
eve is a product we pay for. it goes out advertised as something we decide we want to pay for. if the skills are changed and i trained for them... payed money to be able to train these chosen skills; I dont think they should EVER just be taken away from me..... and if so: the LEAST i demand is SP reimbursement. who does not agree with me hands up so i can laugh.

Mining Barge is still a useful skill, so there's no need to refund. The money you paid to access CCP's content is still good.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#50 - 2013-02-10 22:44:35 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
Steve Ronuken wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Ok, now just imagine you are a new player looking at training an orca. You really want it to haul as it is the best ship in a lot of situations for hauling goods. You also think it would be useful as a mobile command platform. You have no intention to mine and hate the idea of mining though. The current choice you would face it to wait 6 or maybe more months for CCP to implement these changes, or alternatively delay your training for 6 months.

I would personally delay training for 6 months enless I really needed the orca for some immediate purpose. Also imagine how pissed those newbs will be who don't read this forum and train for the orca under the current regime.


Changes like this have happened several times in the past & we've never had skillpoints reimbursed. If a person isn't reading the forums then chances are they will never be aware of this change anyway. Skillpoints should never be reimbursed because of changes unless the skill is removed entirely.


dont say people who dont read forums should suffer. its the companies responsibility to inform customers about product changes man.



Uh, Dev blogs /are/ the company informing the customers.



i didnt say they werent i was implying on steves comment saying its the customers responsibility to siff through the forums for alerts to changes. forums are not a part of the product eve online. the company needs to inform consumers directly in form of direct notification be it emai newsletters or in game messages.

Legba
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#51 - 2013-02-10 22:45:41 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
eve is a product we pay for. it goes out advertised as something we decide we want to pay for. if the skills are changed and i trained for them... payed money to be able to train these chosen skills; I dont think they should EVER just be taken away from me..... and if so: the LEAST i demand is SP reimbursement. who does not agree with me hands up so i can laugh.

Mining Barge is still a useful skill, so there's no need to refund. The money you paid to access CCP's content is still good.


oh sorry i meant sp reimbursement as in being able to keep and reapply skills trained to new skills my bad.

Legba
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#52 - 2013-02-10 22:45:49 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
eve is a product we pay for. it goes out advertised as something we decide we want to pay for. if the skills are changed and i trained for them... payed money to be able to train these chosen skills; I dont think they should EVER just be taken away from me..... and if so: the LEAST i demand is SP reimbursement. who does not agree with me hands up so i can laugh.

Mining Barge is still a useful skill, so there's no need to refund.


This is the problem though, mining barge is a very useless skill to a great many pilots who trained for the Orca. The orca has many uses not related at all to mining, and even the mining related ones do not require the pilot to have any need for a mining barge either.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#53 - 2013-02-10 22:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
I am sure there will be those who disagree with this also, and if that is the case than I respect that view, and would kindly ask for others to respect opposing views also.
There's a reason why the other thread, which you were active in, got moved to Skill Discussions.

Could you show some respect as well and not go and create additional threads, especially in the wrong sub-forum. Thanks.


It seemed appropriate to put an issue regarding SP reimbursement in GD to me. If not then I expect the mods will be the ones who decide that.
They did. Which is why they moved the other thread.

And since you're still posting in it, I'm quite sure you noticed it.

You could also try the actual feedback thread for the changes, which has Dev responses to the issues around SP re-imbursement.

*edit* and I'll edit my first response seeing as you changed your mind Blink
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#54 - 2013-02-10 22:51:11 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
This is the problem though, mining barge is a very useless skill to a great many pilots who trained for the Orca. The orca has many uses not related at all to mining, and even the mining related ones do not require the pilot to have any need for a mining barge either.

But you trained it and it is useful, whether you use it or not. The same goes for Mining Foreman. That's one of the most useless skill I could ever think of, myself, but it's still a useful skill. CCP isn't taking any capability away from your character which would actually be a valid reason to reimburse skill points.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#55 - 2013-02-10 22:52:21 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
over a month of their time was completely worthless to them now?



And how is worthless?

They got to fly the Orca before the change.
They get to fly it afterwards.

From their perspective, /nothing/ has changed.

What this really boils down to is:
'Waah! they get to do something more easily than I got to.'

That's all.

Do you complain when you go to MacDonalds, and find out they cut the price the day before? When you had a burger the week before and had to pay the higher price?


quoting for emphasis

You were happy with training mining barge V before the changes so it must be worth it. just don't read that dev blog or talk to anyone about the skill requirements and guess what? It affects you not one jot!

Oh and please don't hide behind the "newbies" getting into Orcas it's Malcanis law and all that jazz at work

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
Whitehound
#56 - 2013-02-10 22:53:03 UTC
The reasoning is sound. Just my opinion.

Orcas are not mining ships. They are mining support ships, for which the skill is not needed and why the skill is now being removed. It does not need more explanation.

And it is just a mining skill anyway.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-02-10 22:54:55 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
over a month of their time was completely worthless to them now?



And how is worthless?

They got to fly the Orca before the change.
They get to fly it afterwards.

From their perspective, /nothing/ has changed.

What this really boils down to is:
'Waah! they get to do something more easily than I got to.'

That's all.

Do you complain when you go to MacDonalds, and find out they cut the price the day before? When you had a burger the week before and had to pay the higher price?


Not only do they get to fly the Orca more easily, but they can fly it better, with less of a clone cost. Not to mention, again, we're talking lost game time. Wasted time is a lot different from spending a little extra money because you didn't buy something when it was on sale or whatever. Its not something that can be adapted to like a nerf can, they literally have no recourse, at all. And clearly CCP is saying they made a mistake with the prereqs by changing them. Generally when you make a mistake, you fix the problems the mistake caused in the first place, something they aren't doing.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#58 - 2013-02-10 22:59:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
samualvimes wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
over a month of their time was completely worthless to them now?



And how is worthless?

They got to fly the Orca before the change.
They get to fly it afterwards.

From their perspective, /nothing/ has changed.

What this really boils down to is:
'Waah! they get to do something more easily than I got to.'

That's all.

Do you complain when you go to MacDonalds, and find out they cut the price the day before? When you had a burger the week before and had to pay the higher price?


quoting for emphasis

You were happy with training mining barge V before the changes so it must be worth it. just don't read that dev blog or talk to anyone about the skill requirements and guess what? It affects you not one jot!

Oh and please don't hide behind the "newbies" getting into Orcas it's Malcanis law and all that jazz at work


Let me ask you though, what would you say to the new pilot who just entered your corporation and wants to get into hauling and has his eyes set on the Orca, you know he hates mining and would never have any use of mining barge V. In all honesty you would have to tell him to not train the Orca and wait for CCP to change it.

Surely this is not a good state of affairs for EVE to be in for the coming months. And this does not just apply to Orca's, this also applies to quite a few ships, so the chances of this scenario affecting quite a large majority of new players is very high.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-02-10 23:02:35 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
i didnt say they werent i was implying on steves comment saying its the customers responsibility to siff through the forums for alerts to changes. forums are not a part of the product eve online. the company needs to inform consumers directly in form of direct notification be it emai newsletters or in game messages.


The forums are a product of EVE & are the primary method of general communication between the devs & the playerbase. Upcomming potential changes are always stickied & are incredibly easy to find. I have yet to play an online game where the company informs you of every upcomming change through ingame messages & email (And as a gaming goon, I play a lot of games). If a player is truely interested in upcomming game changes then they will easily find the information they seek.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-02-10 23:02:37 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
over a month of their time was completely worthless to them now?



And how is worthless?

They got to fly the Orca before the change.
They get to fly it afterwards.

From their perspective, /nothing/ has changed.

What this really boils down to is:
'Waah! they get to do something more easily than I got to.'

That's all.

Do you complain when you go to MacDonalds, and find out they cut the price the day before? When you had a burger the week before and had to pay the higher price?


Not only do they get to fly the Orca more easily, but they can fly it better, with less of a clone cost. Not to mention, again, we're talking lost game time. Wasted time is a lot different from spending a little extra money because you didn't buy something when it was on sale or whatever. Its not something that can be adapted to like a nerf can, they literally have no recourse, at all. And clearly CCP is saying they made a mistake with the prereqs by changing them. Generally when you make a mistake, you fix the problems the mistake caused in the first place, something they aren't doing.


Except they always said "If you can fly it now you can fly it after. This cannot be true if they reimburse mining barges training... There also was a much morse silly requirement that is changing. Command ship used to require logistic and even that is not gettign a refund. At least the orca requirement made sense since it was most likely meant from day 1 to be a mining support ship...