These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Did Tranquility lost 50,000 subscribers since Incarna?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#61 - 2013-02-09 22:01:53 UTC
Takseen wrote:
By the way, 75% of existing players actually enjoy PVP. (source: http://i.imgur.com/BHkr164.png Fanfest economy presentation 2012). It's a mistake on the developers part when the default action is to not participate in it at all.

Which presentation was this? I'd like to see the full thing.


It's the Fanfest 2012 presentation on the economy Blink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZD6-vGQms

You can see the chart at 8 minutes in. As a bonus you can see that 65% of players with over 5m sp live in highsec at 4:40. (!)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#62 - 2013-02-09 22:15:33 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Yes, they should get rid fo their families, their friends, their jobs and whatever RL issues prevents them from fully enjoying EVE's rewards to those who can log in 30 hours a week.

Most players of EVE are soloers and most soloers are casuals and most casuals are so because of RL.

But then, developing EVE in new directions that fulfil the real needs of the real player base who pays the bills is like the most awful and uncool idea ever suggested.

No, it does not take you 30 hours a week worth of contributions to enjoy playing in any corp (highsec, lowsec, or nullsec). I (and tens of thousands of other players) probably spend less than five hours per a week doing corp-related activities because I have found the right corp and alliance playstyle.

I can relax because there are other players who are not as "casual" as I am that are willing to put in the hours and do things that I don't necessarily like doing. When things get real I can come in and make a real contribution if I want to. This is how player groups survive. If some corp leaders don't see the game as a game instead of a lifestyle, they're bad leaders and their groups will collapse under pressure, as has been shown many times in the past, and present.

If you want to play by yourself, by all means you should be able to, but you should still be subject to the rules of the place you currently live in and not live in pseudo rookie-mode for your entire career. When the most optimal playstyle is to stick your head into the sandbox and never leave your comfort zone, it breeds stagnation, contempt for others who dare interfere with your operations, and is bad for the game. The fear of being in a corporation of people who share your interests is completely unnecessary.

Developing new features is very cost-hungry and results in a lot of planning and things have to be done properly without any issues, resulting in a lot of development time for sometimes little results (Captains Quarters!). In comparison, tweaking the current game so that it is more playable is a lot easier, and results in players who disliked the way old things worked coming back. We all want to see cool new features, but making existing content work the way it is supposed to is more important.


Well, my experience with corporations can be summarized as: fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Been to 3 corproations and ended bad three times. Obviously It is unrealistic to expect that every player will find the right people at the right time, but people who fail to find a band of people worth playing the game for them, should not be ignored, berrated, scorned, deprived of gameplay and more or less told to leave.

Because people whose money and effort is not appreciated take that at face value and ceases being customers... and they are the majority of customers of this game.

You can bet that most of those 50,000 missing subscriptors just went away in silence. Nobody knew they were there but now CCP is missing their 750,000 $ each month.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ai Shun
#63 - 2013-02-09 22:25:00 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sorry, but you have completely lost me at this point...what is the connection?


The OP is one of the more fanatical adherents of WiS, threatened to quit several times and threw his toys out of the cot, was unwilling to look at options / alternatives, etc. And now he's back, using incorrect data to claim massive subscriber losses and so forth. Note the "pre-Incarna" bit. Which has me suspicious that he is going to be telling us about how wonderful WiS is and that if CCP focused all their development efforts on it and made it EVE Online the game would be very, very successful.


Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Whats "bear" content?


Carebear.

Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Oh, wait. This thread is just about some data, kind of looking at it and talking about Eve? But, I thought we were all going to run around and scream like preteens with their hair on fire? And jump to conclusions and shout accusations and otherwise behave as though there is something to be afraid of and scared about!


The data is largely incorrect and based off a flawed premise. There is a site that receives the actual subscription numbers, there are press releases and gaming media talking about the actual numbers. So when looking at a thread like this I have to ask myself:

"What was the point? What did this add to the game, to CCP?"

And the answer is pretty much nothing. Thus I feel completely justified wasting my time and energy sperging all over it.
Ai Shun
#64 - 2013-02-09 22:31:58 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
EVE is not dieing, it just lost 50,000 subscribers between March 2012 and December 2012. Bear


You've not actually seen the real data, have you? Your "claim" is factually incorrect. Do a bit of research using more than one source.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-02-09 22:36:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Takseen
EI Digin wrote:


It's the Fanfest 2012 presentation on the economy Blink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZD6-vGQms



Yay EconomicsBig smile

Interesting that the low sec population goes down as skillpoints go up. I guess there's a lot of low SP FW alts accounting for that.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#66 - 2013-02-09 22:49:20 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Well, my experience with corporations can be summarized as: fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Been to 3 corproations and ended bad three times. Obviously It is unrealistic to expect that every player will find the right people at the right time, but people who fail to find a band of people worth playing the game for them, should not be ignored, berrated, scorned, deprived of gameplay and more or less told to leave.

Because people whose money and effort is not appreciated take that at face value and ceases being customers... and they are the majority of customers of this game.

You can bet that most of those 50,000 missing subscriptors just went away in silence. Nobody knew they were there but now CCP is missing their 750,000 $ each month.


They were prolly just people like me who decided to take some time off when they presented Cpts quarters. Ai said that you took some time off, did you try SWtoR? They had a great WiS kind of thing going on, and they only spent 2.357 billion developing it. You could probably go and get a job with them explaining money and subs and how they can make all that money back.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#67 - 2013-02-09 22:53:43 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Well, my experience with corporations can be summarized as: fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Been to 3 corproations and ended bad three times. Obviously It is unrealistic to expect that every player will find the right people at the right time, but people who fail to find a band of people worth playing the game for them, should not be ignored, berrated, scorned, deprived of gameplay and more or less told to leave.

When all of the smart leaders and players who like to play in highsec are "playing solo" because hiding in NPC corps and recyclable 1 man corps is the smart thing to do, then you are going to have difficulty finding a good group to play with. It's not about nerfing solo play into the ground, it's making it so that there's some sort of reasoning behind being in a player group that lives in highsec.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Because people whose money and effort is not appreciated take that at face value and ceases being customers... and they are the majority of customers of this game.

You can bet that most of those 50,000 missing subscriptors just went away in silence. Nobody knew they were there but now CCP is missing their 750,000 $ each month.


Where did all of those missing subscriptions come from? It wasn't from the people who stuck their heads in the sand and played "solo". It came from people who were tired of CCP not paying attention to issues that made the game hard to play. They were not "appreciated enough" so they left. CCP felt the loss so they changed their tune for the better.

What part of highsec was so broken that it resulted in everyone quitting?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#68 - 2013-02-09 22:59:45 UTC
EI Digin wrote:

I can relax because there are other players who are not as "casual" as I am that are willing to put in the hours and do things that I don't necessarily like doing. When things get real I can come in and make a real contribution if I want to. This is how player groups survive. If some corp leaders don't see the game as a game instead of a lifestyle, they're bad leaders and their groups will collapse under pressure, as has been shown many times in the past, and present.

If you want to play by yourself, by all means you should be able to, but you should still be subject to the rules of the place you currently live in and not live in pseudo rookie-mode for your entire career. When the most optimal playstyle is to stick your head into the sandbox and never leave your comfort zone, it breeds stagnation, contempt for others who dare interfere with your operations, and is bad for the game. The fear of being in a corporation of people who share your interests is completely unnecessary.


Not everyone like to live like a parasite on corp mates efforts, nor every corp love parasites and squatters.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#69 - 2013-02-09 23:09:11 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sorry, but you have completely lost me at this point...what is the connection?


The OP is one of the more fanatical adherents of WiS, threatened to quit several times and threw his toys out of the cot, was unwilling to look at options / alternatives, etc. And now he's back, using incorrect data to claim massive subscriber losses and so forth. Note the "pre-Incarna" bit. Which has me suspicious that he is going to be telling us about how wonderful WiS is and that if CCP focused all their development efforts on it and made it EVE Online the game would be very, very successful.
[/quote]

At this point, WiS is irrelevant. CCP can't deliver it fast enough not even if they u-turned and began the "baby steps" approach this summer. Which they can't afford as they would be losing the POS crowd amongst others.

You know, not even mental freaks like me are relevant. It's the perfectly sane people who happens to stand by my side who are an issue. I am the self-important noisy tip of the iceberg, the guy who gets 100+ likes just by doomsaying on how important is to engage soloers. I am a freak... but the guys below me are ripping the guts of this game right under your feet (and CCP's).

So it all summarizes to this: either people like me (the sane ones, not necessarily myself) play the game this year or EVE will face a serious population issue. Iteration is not enough for me, but it may be for others. Probably I would be back to mission running if they just delivered a couple hundred new Lvl 4s or moved some Lvl5 to hisec. Which they won't do as the guys who designed missions no longer work for CCP, nobody knows how the mission builder worked and the code is so old that it will self -destruct if they touch it. Standard CCP procedure. Roll

So instead of adding new missions, their plans (likely) are to render every multi-billion PvE ship a waste by changing AI so PvP fits are necessary to defeat NPCs. It's a challenge, it's glamurous, they can do it (unlike revisiting the old mission builder) and it's going to work wonders on population once people finds out that their specialyzed PvE ships, which they grinded for during months, have become useless.

And that's just one instance of how CCP breaks more than it fixes when dealing with players who don't speak, don't forum-war, don't vote nor become CSM, don't produce !!HEADLINES!!, but pay the bills.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#70 - 2013-02-09 23:11:44 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
EVE is not dieing, it just lost 50,000 subscribers between March 2012 and December 2012. Bear


You've not actually seen the real data, have you? Your "claim" is factually incorrect. Do a bit of research using more than one source.


Produce your evidence, then. Show us why i am wrong.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#71 - 2013-02-09 23:33:40 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
EVE is not dieing, it just lost 50,000 subscribers between March 2012 and December 2012. Bear


You've not actually seen the real data, have you? Your "claim" is factually incorrect. Do a bit of research using more than one source.


Produce your evidence, then. Show us why i am wrong.

You are a self proclaimed mentally unstable fanatic. Evidence wont help. But I can say that I talk to people in Eve, guys in help or just flying araund, I'm seeing people comin back to Eve after being away for 5 and 6 years. One guy who read a book about Dust a year ago and signed up, and a few more that just heard about it somewhere and signed up for the trial.

When WotC presented the open liscence for D&D it was not out of niceness. There is a bussiness truth that states "all advertising in a certain market has a positive effect on the leader in that market." I think we might be seeing some of that here this year, lots of buzz about the decline of WoW and the whole thing wit SWtoR flopping, Perhaps people are seeing these things and coming back to Eve.

I have no hard facts on this. On the other hand I have no desire for the facts that I do find to mean one thing or another. I find it to be utterly repulsive that you would submit "facts" as though you are an impartial data miner and then turn around and make all kinds of preconcieved claims based on that information. Do you understand how that kind of presentation completely undermines any credibiltiy that you had?
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-02-09 23:55:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Takseen
That little incident in Asakai kinda brought Eve back to my attention aswell. My friends were well impressed that the servers could handle such a thing.
RAP ACTION HERO
#73 - 2013-02-10 05:28:56 UTC
Why don't you tell us exactly what you want, more barbies or more risk less solo highsec pve farming?
What is the point of your post except the illuminating news of eve is dying,
Why are you still here after you've made it clear that you are leaving the game, yet here you are.

vitoc erryday
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#74 - 2013-02-10 09:24:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

I have no idea Im still in shock over the bree in the sodastream


I'll try drinking a bear, I'm not sure how you get it in liquid form but I'll try it.

I'll even drink beer diluted into a sodastream.

But I will not, I repeat NOT, drink bree. That is just disgusting.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#75 - 2013-02-10 09:28:40 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
Why don't you tell us exactly what you want, more barbies or more risk less solo highsec pve farming?
What is the point of your post except the illuminating news of eve is dying,
Why are you still here after you've made it clear that you are leaving the game, yet here you are.


Well, you probably didn't notice, but I unsubbed in october and just fired up a PLEX in january when the CSM minutes were out and CCP stated their intent to find a way to engage solo players. In case you're interested, you may see my alt in the next 3 months if i take the resub offer it received a few days ago.

Anyway, the intent to find a way to suppose how could they engage the majority of EVE players, aka soloers, was accidentally blown away by some POS drama that took a lote of attention, and also now the Asakai battle and Brave Newbies Inc have supplied CCP with the appropiate comforting feedback on how they're doing well, so well, albeit they keep dismissing the ones who really pay the bills of this game.

This is why it is relevant to state that Tranqulity subscription has taken a serious hit behind the comforting fact that PCU is not plummetting.

CCP knows it, and the players should know it too... at least the ones who waste their sub money in the forums rather than ingame.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
RAP ACTION HERO
#76 - 2013-02-10 09:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: RAP ACTION HERO
have fun grinding plexes, good luck with seeing any changes within 3 months.
and lol gw2

vitoc erryday
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#77 - 2013-02-10 09:55:44 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
EVE is not dieing, it just lost 50,000 subscribers between March 2012 and December 2012. Bear


You've not actually seen the real data, have you? Your "claim" is factually incorrect. Do a bit of research using more than one source.


Produce your evidence, then. Show us why i am wrong.

You are a self proclaimed mentally unstable fanatic. Evidence wont help. But I can say that I talk to people in Eve, guys in help or just flying araund, I'm seeing people comin back to Eve after being away for 5 and 6 years. One guy who read a book about Dust a year ago and signed up, and a few more that just heard about it somewhere and signed up for the trial.

When WotC presented the open liscence for D&D it was not out of niceness. There is a bussiness truth that states "all advertising in a certain market has a positive effect on the leader in that market." I think we might be seeing some of that here this year, lots of buzz about the decline of WoW and the whole thing wit SWtoR flopping, Perhaps people are seeing these things and coming back to Eve.

I have no hard facts on this. On the other hand I have no desire for the facts that I do find to mean one thing or another. I find it to be utterly repulsive that you would submit "facts" as though you are an impartial data miner and then turn around and make all kinds of preconcieved claims based on that information. Do you understand how that kind of presentation completely undermines any credibiltiy that you had?


Oh come on, i got my credibiltiy blown apart daily by my own Goon trolls...Lol

I provided the data and my read of them; if you think everything is OK with EVE then please ignore me. It may not be a wise move but you should not have to bear with my bitterness if that troubles you.

All in all, none of us is going to change anything in this game, and all this forum drama is more about how we do manage our interest in EVE than about the real EVE.

As any complex reality, EVE it's gonna go its own way no matter of us. There are very few ways in which an individual can affect such realities (and most of them turn quite ugly). So you see EVE going well and I see it going bad and none of us knows what's going on nor could change it even if we had perfect information.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#78 - 2013-02-10 10:06:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
have fun grinding plexes, good luck with seeing any changes within 3 months.
and lol gw2


Nop, i am playing Planetside 2 now. The articles at The Mittani got me interested in it and I gave it a try, with success. Admittedly it's going to be a short relationship as FPS are not my genre and P2 sucks as a solo game. Also, not suprisingly, I managed to join a faction and a server which is largely disorganized and barely can't beat the other factions, which are more organized... One can only endure so many attempts at taking The Crown without isolating it from enemy territory and with 80% the Vanu playing "support" games while we the assaulters are beaten into pulp because there's never enough heavies, or medics, or engineers, or the Sunderer has been deployed half way to Tipperary instead than on a vantage point... disorganized freaks, where else would i randomly land in an MMO? Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2013-02-10 11:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
EI Digin wrote:
Takseen wrote:
By the way, 75% of existing players actually enjoy PVP. (source: http://i.imgur.com/BHkr164.png Fanfest economy presentation 2012). It's a mistake on the developers part when the default action is to not participate in it at all.

Which presentation was this? I'd like to see the full thing.


It's the Fanfest 2012 presentation on the economy Blink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZD6-vGQms

You can see the chart at 8 minutes in. As a bonus you can see that 65% of characters with over 5m sp live in highsec at 4:40. (!)


He was talking about CHARACTERS !

You keep starting so called discussions about the same **** over and over again.
About stuff that got mythbusted, debunked and talked about already for hours and hours and hours.

There isn't even a discussion going on. People just post to show that they are right,
ignoring if they aren't. Ignoring if they actually know what's going on and ignoring if they
misinterpret the data they are given.

How boring would this place be,
without all you morons who keep talking about the same things over and over again ?

I can't even imagine ...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#80 - 2013-02-10 11:08:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:

There was pvp-content in the 2011 expansions ??
Seriously ?? o_O


Retribution came out in 2011??!!?

Dude, which year do we have ??


I have no idea Im still in shock over the bree in the sodastream
Someone puts Brie in a sodastream?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.