Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Sounds ambitious, i wish killing solo ratters was enough to win every war, eve would be a lot more interesting.

Thank god some alliances dont have hundreds of tech moons, or blobs upon blobs of ratters to kill this idea.

Aggro switching is good as it is, now missions are more dangerous, and it is fun.



This is not WoW.

Oh really???

For some reason I find it hard to believe that you don't walk away from every gank with a boner feeling like you're god.

If that were the case, than you wouldn't have said this in an earlier post..




I know what it is now though.

You try to make carebears feel stupid by ganking them.
However, lately you've been getting blown up by npcs, and lets face it, that's the dumbest way to go out.

So instead of making them feel stupid, you've been getting face r@ped by npcs which makes you feel less like a man.



To be honest with you, I'm kinda suprised goonswarm is allowing you to run your mouth off in here about how hard life is now that npcs shoot you.

Again, I'm sure you're one of the very few goonswarm players that thinks smarter npcs is a bad thing.

Granted, goons sure do love easy ganks...

Does the new AI have the functionality to take into account standings? Because that would be pretty cool...

Funny people, It's the victims fault that they were victimized. That kind of logic is...special.


The reason PvE folks don't take all your hunting into consideration in the balance is because many of them would stay and fight if there was anything approaching parity in the situation. If they were capable of doing something upon being engaged but exploding then you would not have to worry about them warping off the second an unknown enters local. Hell, with a bit of parity they might even stick around for reds. Yes, there are some that are that risk adverse, but not all, or even most except for the bots.

The AI is a bit messed up. It pays way, way too much attention to drones. It tends to focus on a new target with the entire fleet rather than splitting a squad---it should be more random instead of doing the same thing every time.

OP and friends are indeed looking for easy, risk free kills. They are demonstrably more risk adverse than the gentlest of carebears.

The thing that most PVPrs seem to overlook is that they should not get the right to take the fun out of another's game to satisfy themselves. The onesided ganks they are trying to return to an easier state are exactly this. This is why the carebear runs--- it's simply not fun. The moment you come into local you have won as far as they are concerned and they are simply cutting their losses. It's not a win to dock and hide. A win is getting to do whatever you were there to do. If PvE and PvP become more similar, everyone will have more fun because more fights will happen. They won't be easy, pushover easy fights, but they will be more fun than trying to warp in on a sleepy guy killing a room full of nigh brainless rats.

Lol, -A- dudes lecturing me on how to play EVE. It was foretold in the prophecies that this day would come!

I like how every publord response to this is some sort of character attack about how "YOURE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AT EVE YOU WANT FREE KILLMAILS HTFU" when there's literally no "skill" involved in avoiding NPC damage. I'm not saying you can't blob some poor moron's Vindicator with 15 ships and successfully gank them, I'm saying the new AI hurts solo PvPers.

You try tanking a blaster Naga and a room full of rats in your Vagabond... it's simply not possible.

This is absolutely hilarious.

Predictability and EVE dont go hand and hand.

Gankers are the new Carebears.

Except they don't all switch all the time, and the amount of time they take to switch is random.

As guardians they are unreliable at best.

The PvP player starts the engagement at an advantage. They know what sort of fit their target is likely to be running and can counter-fit appropriately. The defender is already fighting a number of opponents so their tank will be already under pressure at the moment of engagement, making it easier to break their tank.

ECM works excellently against player ships, making for a huge potential advantage, where it hardly works at all against rats (and when it does work, odds are there are so many rats that it is irrelevant).

The PvP player also has the option of running away if things don't go their way, as warp disruptors are a total waste on a PvE ship.

So tell me again how the new AI gives PvE players such a huge advantage?

I would argue the opposite: the ratter knows in advance exactly what ships they're intending to fight (namely the rats), and can fit a perfect counter-fit if they want. By comparison, the PvPer has no idea what they're about to warp in on-- it could be a newbee with a T1 fit Raven that can barely tank a couple of BS rats, or it could be a bitter 2005 veteran who saw a ganker in the area in intel and decided to plop an omnitanked, dual heavy neut ship with a point and prop mod into a belt / anom as bait. The PvPer's ship has to be able to handle both those eventualities plus whatever random player hostiles they might run into along the way there, further diminishing their ability to use a "specific counter-fit."




They *might* be able to run away. You're right-- points and scrams are pretty useless on a ship that you're not intending to PvP with. But they're pretty useful on a ship you want to bait someone with.

It's not so much that the new AI puts the PvEer at a massive advantage, it's more that it erodes the single advantage that the PvPer used to have-- the fact that they didn't have to tank the NPCs. I know most of the people posting angry responses in this thread probably don't spend much time trying to solo-gank ratters, but if you've ever tried to use an average PvP ship to shoot a ratter and found yourself getting shot back you know how quickly a properly-fit PvE ship can rip into a PvP hull, and how hard they can be to kill even with rat DPS working for you.

A huge reason for this is the fact that because PvE is in fact nothing like PvP (even with the sleeper-like AI), a PvEer can use a huge variety of ships to kill rats, including very large, lumbering ships that would never be remotely practical for PvP. A solo PvPer, by contrast is essentially limited to ships that meet several qualifications, the most important of which (in my experience) is that they have to be fast enough to evade hostiles when necessary and fast enough to catch their intended targets. This means having decent agility, speed, and scan resolution.

Ships which have these three things (and do enough DPS to kill a ratter) usually don't have the base hitpoints or slot layout to support a robust tank of any kind. This wasn't so much of a problem before the new AI, since all you had to do was tank your target's dps for long enough to kill them. Even so, when you encountered a ship with an unusually robust tank it wasn't too uncommon to be forced off by a target's dps before you could kill them. Omnitanked battleships (if they were belt ratting or you caught them at the tail end of an anom wave were a great example of this).

Now that it's typical to have to tank both your target and the rats when attempting a gank, most ships in the game can't stand up to the DPS. I don't think most ratters realize how quickly your average roaming HAC dies to fire from something like a Tengu; the things can do upwards of 900 dps-- twice the DPS of a Vagabond, for example. It's pretty hard to stand up to that in a ship that has maybe 20-30k ehp and does half the damage, especially when ~10 rats light you up too.