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Ancillary Armor reppers listed, but not seeded yet. stats inside.
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GreenSeed
#1 - 2013-02-08 21:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
im a bit surprised no one has talked about them so far, so im making a thread to discuss them. im sure a lot already know the stats, but im posting them for the few that don't.

Things to note:
- All modules are limited to one per ship "Max Modules Of This Group Allowed 1 "
- all modules share cycle speed, overload bonuses and heat damage with T2 variants of regular modules.
- All modules share the fitting reqs of T1 variants of the regular reppers. so no up-sizing of modules like with ancillary shield boosters.
- Nanite repair paste has a volume of 0.01m3, so all reppers get 8 cycles before reload.
- i would expect that after the speculation on nanite paste goes away, small reps will cost 26k per cycle, 104k for the meds and 208k for the large reps (Shocked)
- with no paste they repair a bit more than half what t2 reps, but they consume the same cap. boosted they rep 3x, a large ancillary repper will net you 1,350 armor when a T2 large repper gives you 800.


Stats:
SMALL

Capacity 0.08 m3
Volume 5 m3
Mass 500.00 kg
Reload Time 60.00 s
activation cost 40 GJ
Max Modules Of This Group Allowed 1
Structure Hitpoints 40 HP
Tech Level Level 1
Charges Per Cycle 1
Heat Damage 5.40 HP
Required Thermodynamics Level Level 1
Overload duration bonus -15 %
Activation time / duration 6.00 s
Overload Repair Bonus 10 %
Armor hp Repaired 45 HP
Used with (chargegroup) Nanite Repair Paste
Boosted repair multiplier 3 x

MED

Capacity 0.32 m3
Volume 10 m3
Mass 500.00 kg
Reload Time 60.00 s
activation cost 160 GJ
Max Modules Of This Group Allowed 1
Structure Hitpoints 40 HP
Tech Level Level 1
Charges Per Cycle 4
Heat Damage 5.30 HP
Required Thermodynamics Level Level 1
Overload duration bonus -15 %
Activation time / duration 12.00 s
Overload Repair Bonus 10 %
Armor hp Repaired 180 HP
Used with (chargegroup) Nanite Repair Paste
Boosted repair multiplier 3 x

LARGE

Capacity 0.64 m3
Volume 50 m3
Mass 500.00 kg
Reload Time 60.00 s
activation cost 400 GJ
Max Modules Of This Group Allowed 1
Structure Hitpoints 40 HP
Tech Level Level 1
Charges Per Cycle 8
Heat Damage 5.40 HP
Required Thermodynamics Level Level 1
Overload duration bonus -15 %
Activation time / duration 15.00 s
Overload Repair Bonus 10 %
Armor hp Repaired 450 HP
Used with (chargegroup) Nanite Repair Paste
Boosted repair multiplier 3 x

SShot:
http://i.imgur.com/WVGVkc3.jpg?1


my opinion:

holy flying dongs batman! they be expensive YO!

at 1.6millon per reload i don't thing anyone will be using the large reppers often. X

the small reppers look nice to use on a ship that can go dual rep, using one t2 and the other back up (cycle) repper as ancillary sounds pretty nice. so the incursus will be beyond awesome. myrmidons and brutixes will be burning nanite paste like crazy using a similar method. even ships like the dragoon that i been using lately with dual reps in small fleets will get pretty impressive with the ancillary stuff, they will be able to perma run 2 small neuts and 2 reps, as opposed to one neut + 2 reps. (and ewar, prop etc.)

now i think the biggest problem will be the paste itself, currently a 3x repper myrmidon is a ***** to kill, they are limited by the amnt of cap booster on hold. and as such you often end tied in a fight that you have no chance to win, but you will delay the inevitable minutes and minutes so long as you have cap charges... im temped to say this wont change, it will only get worse now. since a myrm only needs to run 2 repppers, the third is free and boosted. granted, there's that 60 second reload, but it will rep 742.5 per cycle. Shocked

my point is people will go for the maximum they can carry/afford as opposed to the maximum needed to get into a fight, decide if a commitment past a few minutes will net a fair chance of victory and release the jamming drones. this will be a factor on the overall paste consumption, so paste stabilizing at 30k+ p/u doesn't sound too far fetched. (friendly industry tip: go make paste)

so, anyway im waiting to see if they get seeded to see if keeping the paste in a container while inside the hold will allow the use of the repper with no paste. i always felt the auto load on charges was a limiting factor on the shield boosters, given that these modules don't consume extra cap i want to atleast try.

do i hear incursus nerf?
Carol Krabit
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-02-08 22:12:50 UTC
Ancillary armor reps are going to drain cap even when loaded, so any cap stability will be improved slightly at best .
Moonasha
Orcses and Goblinz
#3 - 2013-02-08 22:15:16 UTC
I certainly won't be using them on anything but small ships, the damn nano paste is so expensive... and will only get more expensive.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#4 - 2013-02-08 22:38:38 UTC
large anc armor repper only reps 68-69% more than t2 repper, what a joke
GreenSeed
#5 - 2013-02-08 22:45:01 UTC
Carol Krabit wrote:
Ancillary armor reps are going to drain cap even when loaded, so any cap stability will be improved slightly at best .

are you sure about this? the wording on the text, even when clearly copy pasted from the shield boosters, its still updated enough to see that they wont.

they aren't seeded yet, so i cant confirm or deny, and as usual stats are probably going to change.
Anachronic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-02-08 22:46:53 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
Carol Krabit wrote:
Ancillary armor reps are going to drain cap even when loaded, so any cap stability will be improved slightly at best .

are you sure about this? the wording on the text, even when clearly copy pasted from the shield boosters, its still updated enough to see that they wont.

they aren't seeded yet, so i cant confirm or deny, and as usual stats are probably going to change.


I'm pretty certain that the devs said they intentionally made them consume cap while loaded because the reason to use them was different than for the ASB, but I can't remember exactly where they said it
Carol Krabit
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-02-08 22:57:03 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
Carol Krabit wrote:
Ancillary armor reps are going to drain cap even when loaded, so any cap stability will be improved slightly at best .

are you sure about this? the wording on the text, even when clearly copy pasted from the shield boosters, its still updated enough to see that they wont.

they aren't seeded yet, so i cant confirm or deny, and as usual stats are probably going to change.


You may have missed this.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#8 - 2013-02-08 23:08:49 UTC
One LAAR on a Hyperion, assuming one nano pump rig for simplicity:

450 x 3(loaded AAR) x 1.375(bonus) x 1.1(rig) x 1.1(overheat) x 8 (number of cycles) = 17968.5 armor repped? That doesn't sound bad at all.

Also keep in mind - MARs are losing 20% pg requirements. LARs are losing 10%. Active tanking rigs increase the pg requirement on reppers now rather then increasing mass.
Anachronic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-02-08 23:13:47 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
One LAAR on a Hyperion, assuming one nano pump rig for simplicity:

450 x 3(loaded AAR) x 1.375(bonus) x 1.1(rig) x 1.1(overheat) x 8 (number of cycles) = 17968.5 armor repped? That doesn't sound bad at all.

Also keep in mind - MARs are losing 20% pg requirements. LARs are losing 10%. Active tanking rigs increase the pg requirement on reppers now rather then increasing mass.



I think they will get used but they will be situational. I think burst tanking could become more common on Armor boats if these pan out well since that's really what these are good for, not sustained tanking.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-02-09 06:35:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kusum Fawn
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
One LAAR on a Hyperion, assuming one nano pump rig for simplicity:

450 x 3(loaded AAR) x 1.375(bonus) x 1.1(rig) x 1.1(overheat) x 8 (number of cycles) = 17968.5 armor repped? That doesn't sound bad at all.

Also keep in mind - MARs are losing 20% pg requirements. LARs are losing 10%. Active tanking rigs increase the pg requirement on reppers now rather then increasing mass.


over 102 seconds (12.75 cycle with heat)

or 176.16 armor repped per second that sounds bad.

vs the unbonuses/unrigged XLASB which does 980(base rep)*5(second cycles)*7(cap 400s that fit) = 34,300 shield hp repped.
or 196 shield hp repped per second.

and thats before heat.
and doesnt require ship cap
and has the same reload time

you need a rig, heat, and a ship bonus to make your aar less effective then the base stats of the asb.
Oh and i forgot to mention -
->The aar requires the same amount of cap that a t2 repper does,
->requires nanite paste to function properly (or else it does less rep then a t2)
->has the same duration that a t2 has
->and the same basic fitting stats that the t1 has (which is 300 pg and 5 cpu less then the t2).
-> is restricted to one per ship (unlike the asb)

stop being stupid. this module is garbage

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Taoist Dragon
School of Applied Knowledge
#11 - 2013-02-09 08:09:05 UTC
and when then the asb reloads you die. \o/

AAR can still be functional but less effective. ASB just cripples you without cap charges in it

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#12 - 2013-02-09 08:10:02 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
One LAAR on a Hyperion, assuming one nano pump rig for simplicity:

450 x 3(loaded AAR) x 1.375(bonus) x 1.1(rig) x 1.1(overheat) x 8 (number of cycles) = 17968.5 armor repped? That doesn't sound bad at all.

Also keep in mind - MARs are losing 20% pg requirements. LARs are losing 10%. Active tanking rigs increase the pg requirement on reppers now rather then increasing mass.


over 102 seconds (12.75 cycle with heat)

or 176.16 armor repped per second that sounds bad.

vs the unbonuses/unrigged XLASB which does 980(base rep)*5(second cycles)*7(cap 400s that fit) = 34,300 shield hp repped.
or 196 shield hp repped per second.

and thats before heat.
and doesnt require ship cap
and has the same reload time

you need a rig, heat, and a ship bonus to make your aar less effective then the base stats of the asb.
Oh and i forgot to mention -
->The aar requires the same amount of cap that a t2 repper does,
->requires nanite paste to function properly (or else it does less rep then a t2)
->has the same duration that a t2 has
->and the same basic fitting stats that the t1 has (which is 300 pg and 5 cpu less then the t2).
-> is restricted to one per ship (unlike the asb)

stop being stupid. this module is garbage


You multiplied by the cycle time which is incorrect. The total shield repped using your scenario would have been simply 980 * 7 cycles = 6860. 196 hp/s is correct but why hold back? Put all the cards on the table.

980 * 1.1(overheat) * 9(navy cap boosters) = 9702 over 38.25 seconds or 253.65 shield per second. If you add in a shield boost bonus that becomes 13340.25 shield or 348.76 hp/s.

Now go back to the AAR. The Repair systems skill reduces the duration by 5%. At level 5 you get to cut your cycle time by 25%. That 15 seconds becomes 9.56 s with overheat. Add an armor nanobot accelerator and you are looking at 8.13 s cycles. An ASB ship will use resist rigs to plug holes. An active tanking armor ship is going to take advantage of the nanobot accelerator rigs and nano pumps.

Recompiling using a 65 second base and you get 201 hp/s for a non bonused ship and 276.44 hp/s for a bonused one. 38.25 seconds vs 65 seconds. Writing it off is a bit presumptuous.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2013-02-09 12:45:47 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
One LAAR on a Hyperion, assuming one nano pump rig for simplicity:

450 x 3(loaded AAR) x 1.375(bonus) x 1.1(rig) x 1.1(overheat) x 8 (number of cycles) = 17968.5 armor repped? That doesn't sound bad at all.

Also keep in mind - MARs are losing 20% pg requirements. LARs are losing 10%. Active tanking rigs increase the pg requirement on reppers now rather then increasing mass.


over 102 seconds (12.75 cycle with heat)

or 176.16 armor repped per second that sounds bad.

vs the unbonuses/unrigged XLASB which does 980(base rep)*5(second cycles)*7(cap 400s that fit) = 34,300 shield hp repped.
or 196 shield hp repped per second.

and thats before heat.
and doesnt require ship cap
and has the same reload time

you need a rig, heat, and a ship bonus to make your aar less effective then the base stats of the asb.
Oh and i forgot to mention -
->The aar requires the same amount of cap that a t2 repper does,
->requires nanite paste to function properly (or else it does less rep then a t2)
->has the same duration that a t2 has
->and the same basic fitting stats that the t1 has (which is 300 pg and 5 cpu less then the t2).
-> is restricted to one per ship (unlike the asb)

stop being stupid. this module is garbage
Alt scrub, incorrect maths, wrong conclusion... ah that would be the Eve-O forums then.

On topic, I'm looking forward to these, these past 6 months have seen more changes to my Megathron fits than the past 6 years, loving it.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#14 - 2013-02-09 12:57:03 UTC
No he's right. The module achieves nothing. The rig changes are exactly what the doctor ordered but the fact that AAR's use cap is game-breakingly bad compared to an ASB.

It gives you the option of: Fitting shield and have a capless tank (Extenders or ASB). Or if you like you can fit armor, still need a cap booster and still get neuted to death with one fitted.

Like i said in the main thread: They opened pandroa's box with ASB's and now they are trying to jam it shut without dealing with the sh*t that came pouring out when they did.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#15 - 2013-02-09 12:59:53 UTC
ASB being poorly balanced is not a reason to make any newer module as imbalanced as it is.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#16 - 2013-02-09 13:54:10 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
ASB being poorly balanced is not a reason to make any newer module as imbalanced as it is.


Yet they are already balancing this module and not attempting to fix the ASB? The module is implemented - it is literally a case of changing database stats to fix it. How should they fix it? Limit it to 1 per ship - I love my twin ASB sleipnir, but brawling down a vindicator in a command ship is a bit broken.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-02-09 16:06:55 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
ASB being poorly balanced is not a reason to make any newer module as imbalanced as it is.


Considering that this aar is coming into the game percisely to counter the asb i would say ..

Perhaps the new module would balance the ASB? I mean since we are adding new modules here, why not create a new counterpoint to the unbalanced module yeah? or does that not make any sense.


Gabriel Karade wrote:

Alt scrub, incorrect maths, wrong conclusion... ah that would be the Eve-O forums then.

On topic, I'm looking forward to these, these past 6 months have seen more changes to my Megathron fits than the past 6 years, loving it.


the formula is wrong. how are any of the other conclusions wrong?


Zarnak Wulf wrote:

980 * 1.1(overheat) * 9(navy cap boosters) = 9702 over 38.25 seconds or 253.65 shield per second
If you add in a shield boost bonus that becomes 13340.25 shield or 348.76 hp/s.

Now go back to the AAR. The Repair systems skill reduces the duration by 5%. At level 5 you get to cut your cycle time by 25%. That 15 seconds becomes 9.56 s with overheat. Add an armor nanobot accelerator and you are looking at 8.13 s cycles. An ASB ship will use resist rigs to plug holes. An active tanking armor ship is going to take advantage of the nanobot accelerator rigs and nano pumps.

Recompiling using a 65 second base and you get 201 hp/s for a non bonused ship and 276.44 hp/s for a bonused one. 38.25 seconds vs 65 seconds. Writing it off is a bit presumptuous.


Im not gonna do any more forum math posting late at night, but i will copy your maths
I dont think its presumptuous at all, looking at the unbonused ASB compared to the bonused AAR i see the unbonused ASB getting 253.65 and the bonused AAR at 276.44 I would guess that that number for the AAR is using rigs and a ship bonus?

and thats before you add the second asb.

THe aar is garbage and you all know it

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#18 - 2013-02-09 16:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Reppyk
So it's basically a regular armor repair that reps a bit more the first ~40s, then you must take a choice : stopping it for 60s (lol) or keeping using it but it's worst than a T2 rep.

It's... bad. Most of the active/armor fights I experienced lasted (a lot) longer than 40s. And the charges are way too expensive, making it a truely PVP module that carebears farming lvl4 will never ever use.

Half the paste & [cap while eating paste nanites] consumption and maybe it could be used.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-02-09 17:22:17 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Armor gets the short end of the stick yet again. Enjoy your cap consumption for a little more rep than t2 lar. I'll stick with the ASB, thank you.Cool

Reppyk wrote:
So it's basically a regular armor repair that reps a bit more the first ~40s, then you must take a choice : stopping it for 60s (lol) or keeping using it but it's worst than a T2 rep.

It's... bad. Most of the active/armor fights I experienced lasted (a lot) longer than 40s. And the charges are way too expensive, making it a truely PVP module that carebears farming lvl4 will never ever use.

Half the paste & [cap while eating paste nanites] consumption and maybe it could be used.


Even if cost isn't an issue, it consumes cap and doesn't rep enough compared to XLASB. Both will have to be fixed to make it viable/competitive.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#20 - 2013-02-09 17:26:30 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Armor gets the short end of the stick yet again. Enjoy your cap consumption for a little more rep than t2 lar. I'll stick with the ASB, thank you.Cool

Reppyk wrote:
So it's basically a regular armor repair that reps a bit more the first ~40s, then you must take a choice : stopping it for 60s (lol) or keeping using it but it's worst than a T2 rep.

It's... bad. Most of the active/armor fights I experienced lasted (a lot) longer than 40s. And the charges are way too expensive, making it a truely PVP module that carebears farming lvl4 will never ever use.

Half the paste & [cap while eating paste nanites] consumption and maybe it could be used.


Even if cost isn't an issue, it consumes cap and doesn't rep enough compared to XLASB. Both will have to be fixed to make it viable/competitive.


You've hit the nail on the head. The Zealot is maybe the only ship that could potentially use this module. but most people will just fit a faction rep and use links instead.

Havign a module that consumes charges (expensive oens) and also consumes cap is straight up stupid. Guns are the only module that can get away with this.

Do you want the AAR to be burst tank or sustained tank CCP? It's one or the other. Atm is 50% of both and 100% ****.
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