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Hurricane vs Vagabond pvp

Author
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#1 - 2011-10-11 15:49:54 UTC
Pretty simple question really, I have around 10million skill points and want to make sure I am investing them wisely in the best ships to pvp with. At the moment I am enjoying using Assault ships but want to make the step up to something bigger. So I have decided upon using either a Hurricane or a Vagabond.

At the moment my BC skill is only at rank 3 and will stay there if I don't intend to use BC's for pvp. Mainly because I would just see it as a waste of SP as I use a Loki for missions right now.

The Vagabond looks like alot of fun to fly and seems like the most logical step up from Assault ships. However I am currently only armour tanking and I understand this is a shield fitted ship. Will the skills I need to use shield extenders for it take too long to bother? I have Minmatar Cruiser V already btw.

So the question is what should I gear my training plan towards for pvp. Yes the Vagabond costs alot more but it just looks like so much fun Lol

Thanks in advance for any feedback you give guys. Posting some ship fittings too would be greatly appreciated so that I can make sure I have all the prerequisites to fly with that loadout. Pirate
Bella UK
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-10-11 16:12:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bella UK
Please trust me when i say go for the Hurricane, at least for now. They're both fantastic ships but don't fly the Vagabond with limited XP and experience, it would be a terrible waste.

My advice would be to train hard for the Hurricane. It's one of the best BC's around and in my opinion one of the best ships to PVP in. They're cheap, they do fantastic damage and while training for it's fitting you're also training for your future Vagabond. BC's make brilliant PVP ships, never doubt that.

BC V is what you should aim for.
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#3 - 2011-10-11 16:17:16 UTC
Bella UK wrote:
Please trust me when i say go for the Hurricane, at least for now. They're both fantastic ships but don't fly the Vagabond with limited XP and experience, it would be a terrible waste.

My advice would be to train hard for the Hurricane. It's one of the best BC's around and in my opinion one of the best ships to PVP in. They're cheap, they do fantastic damage and while training for it's fitting you're also training for your future Vagabond. BC's make brilliant PVP ships, never doubt that.

BC V is what you should aim for.

Thanks for the advice, to be honest I would be very worried about losing a Vagabond if I did use it for pvp. The pvp I tend to get involved in is usually gang warfare. Do you have a good pvp fit for a Hurricane that I can look at? Although there is usually a gang around me I would like to be able to solo if I have to. Big smile

+1 Like
Leokokim
Mining Industry Exile Foundation
Synergy of Steel
#4 - 2011-10-11 16:24:52 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:

Thanks for the advice, to be honest I would be very worried about losing a Vagabond if I did use it for pvp. The pvp I tend to get involved in is usually gang warfare. Do you have a good pvp fit for a Hurricane that I can look at? Although there is usually a gang around me I would like to be able to solo if I have to.
+1 Like


Standard Armor Cane with 425s:

Quote:
[Hurricane, Armor]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


You can swap the T2 webber for a T1, of course. And bring several types of Ammo with you (Phased Plasma, EMP, Fusion, Barrage, maybe Hail)

Drones as you wish, Damage or ECM
Bella UK
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-10-11 16:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bella UK
[Hurricane - Shield]
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
Medium Energy Neut II
Medium Energy Neut II

Y-T8 Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control Unit II
Nanofiber II

Medium EM Resist
Medium Shield Extender
Medium Shield Extender

Warrior II / ECM

The lows can be changed out to personal preference.
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#6 - 2011-10-11 16:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Scarlett Anstian
Quote:


Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

You can swap the T2 webber for a T1, of course. And bring several types of Ammo with you (Phased Plasma, EMP, Fusion, Barrage, maybe Hail)

Drones as you wish, Damage or ECM


I tried putting the 425mm Autocannons into EFT and it says I am low on power grid even with lvl V skills.Shocked

@ Bella UK - Thanks for the shield fit but if I use a Cane it will be armour fit. Appreciate the build though, will give it a try when my shield skills are up to scratch Big smile

EDIT: My bad, I forgot to swap the rigs out, thanks for the build but why the disruptor and the scrambler? What?
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#7 - 2011-10-11 17:04:56 UTC
Bella UK wrote:
[Hurricane - Shield]
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
425mm AC II - Barrage / RF EMP
Medium Energy Neut II
Medium Energy Neut II

Y-T8 Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control Unit II
Nanofiber II

Medium EM Resist
Medium Shield Extender
Medium Shield Extender

Warrior II / ECM

The lows can be changed out to personal preference.



I prefer Phased Plasma ammo but this fit is pretty much dead on sweet nano cane action. (Some people also prefer a 2nd Nano instead of the TE or a 3rd Gyro, personal preference)- This and the nano drake are arguably the best bank for you buck in roaming pvp. Speed+DPS = ability to gank + ability to GTFO, which tends to be the seminal roaming gang strategy. If we can't kill it fast, run away from it (or kite it).

The armor cane is also a fine fleet ship.

As everyone else has already said. Go for BC V, the Vaga is a great ship, but needs an experienced pilot. Zooming around at super speeds may seem easy...but its not :)...nano-cane is a great way to practice.
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#8 - 2011-10-11 17:07:21 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Quote:


Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

You can swap the T2 webber for a T1, of course. And bring several types of Ammo with you (Phased Plasma, EMP, Fusion, Barrage, maybe Hail)

Drones as you wish, Damage or ECM


I tried putting the 425mm Autocannons into EFT and it says I am low on power grid even with lvl V skills.Shocked

@ Bella UK - Thanks for the shield fit but if I use a Cane it will be armour fit. Appreciate the build though, will give it a try when my shield skills are up to scratch Big smile

EDIT: My bad, I forgot to swap the rigs out, thanks for the build but why the disruptor and the scrambler? What?


The armor cane has all those mids sitting there doing nothing. Scram+ Disrupt gives you the option to turn off someones MWD, and more importantly to point 2 people. Get in close, scram your primary, and put the disrupt-or on the secondary. In low sec where bubbles do not live, pointing someone is the only way to kill them :)

The Nano-Cane fit should not be an issue with lvl 5 or even 4 skills. Do you have advanced weapon upgrades trained?
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#9 - 2011-10-11 17:27:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Scarlett Anstian
Dark Pangolin wrote:

The armor cane has all those mids sitting there doing nothing. Scram+ Disrupt gives you the option to turn off someones MWD, and more importantly to point 2 people. Get in close, scram your primary, and put the disrupt-or on the secondary. In low sec where bubbles do not live, pointing someone is the only way to kill them :)

The Nano-Cane fit should not be an issue with lvl 5 or even 4 skills. Do you have advanced weapon upgrades trained?

I have Weapon Upgrades V and training Advanced Weapon Upgrades to lvl 3 right now. Seeing as I am 5% over on powergrid with this build I will need to train it to at least IV I think.

I understand what you mean now with having 2 ways to point someone but I thought perhaps another web or a tracking enhancer would be better? You guys know what you are talking about though and I would be a fool to ask for advice on here and then ignore it so 2 points it will be then Blink

+1 to advice so far
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-10-11 17:53:04 UTC
[Hurricane, Welpfleet]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Warrior II x6


This hurricane is designed for work in gangs of any size. It can be the heavy firepower in a small gang of fast ships, or it can be just another brick in a wall of shield-tanked battlecruisers and heavy assault ships. For solo work, you would drop one of the Medium Shield Extender II in lieu of a Warp Disruptor II or a Warp Scrambler II. You will notice that this setup is very similar to the nano-Hurricane setup offered by Bella UK. That's because this fit is very solid, and very highly recommended. The shield resist rigs in lieu of core defence field extender rigs are chosen so as to increase survivability in a gang with logistics support. For its firepower and versatility, the Hurricane is very cheap and expendable: our alliance routinely sends 200+ of these things at a super-capital fleet and considers it a strategic victory if we get two Nyx kills while losing the entire fleet.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#11 - 2011-10-11 18:08:16 UTC
Thanks for the feedback Lyris, that fit does look very good. The gangs I usually fly with dont have logi support, especially not for a shield fleet. Usually its armour or nothing, what would you change around in light of this? I notice to use Shield Extender II's all i need is Shield Upgrades IV, and for an Invulnerability shield II just Tactical Shield Manipulation IV.

My shield skills are non existent but would having those skills be sufficient to fly these builds? Or would I need to work on shields extensively for a while?
e eek'd
Native Freshfood
#12 - 2011-10-11 18:21:12 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Thanks for the feedback Lyris, that fit does look very good. The gangs I usually fly with dont have logi support, especially not for a shield fleet. Usually its armour or nothing, what would you change around in light of this? I notice to use Shield Extender II's all i need is Shield Upgrades IV, and for an Invulnerability shield II just Tactical Shield Manipulation IV.

My shield skills are non existent but would having those skills be sufficient to fly these builds? Or would I need to work on shields extensively for a while?


You should train up shield and armor skills if your future plans are flying a vagabond. shouldnt take you long to get shield upgrades, operation, managment and tactical manipulation up to 4 to use any t2 shield gear. And ocf Bc skill to 5 to get all that cute ship bonus :)
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#13 - 2011-10-11 18:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Scarlett Anstian
e eek'd wrote:
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Thanks for the feedback Lyris, that fit does look very good. The gangs I usually fly with dont have logi support, especially not for a shield fleet. Usually its armour or nothing, what would you change around in light of this? I notice to use Shield Extender II's all i need is Shield Upgrades IV, and for an Invulnerability shield II just Tactical Shield Manipulation IV.

My shield skills are non existent but would having those skills be sufficient to fly these builds? Or would I need to work on shields extensively for a while?


You should train up shield and armor skills if your future plans are flying a vagabond. shouldnt take you long to get shield upgrades, operation, managment and tactical manipulation up to 4 to use any t2 shield gear. And ocf Bc skill to 5 to get all that cute ship bonus :)

Well I intend to make this character purely a Minmatar specific one so I need to train shield skills at some point. Been missing out on some really cool ships like the Jaguar, Cyclone and Maelstrom because of my lack of shield skills. Are the ones you listed the bread and butter of shield skills? Having a list of the ones I should train would be very handy. As I am not too fussed about pve shield fits right now just the skills I would need for buffer shield fits would be awesome Lol

EDIT: To train the ones you have listed so far should take me approximately 7 days which isnt bad at all, thought it would be alot longer.

Aside from ...
- Shield Upgrades IV
- Shield Operation IV
- Shield Management IV
- Tactical Shield Manipulation IV

is there any other shield skill I will definately need? Or will this be solid for a while? Sorry for so many questions, really appreciating the feedback chaps Smile
e eek'd
Native Freshfood
#14 - 2011-10-11 19:05:23 UTC
you could train shield compensation if your going for a active tank other then that there is no other shield skills to train up for exept jury rigging 3 and shield rigging to sue shield rigs :)
Shield managment and operation should be at 5 to get max out of you recharge/capacity. Im still saying that you should top your spaceship command skill of the ship your flying to get to most of your ship, wich on a cane is more important then to get max defence.
Tactical managment can stay at 4, only use for invuls if you dont go for caps :)
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#15 - 2011-10-11 19:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Scarlett Anstian
e eek'd wrote:
you could train shield compensation if your going for a active tank other then that there is no other shield skills to train up for exept jury rigging 3 and shield rigging to sue shield rigs :)
Shield managment and operation should be at 5 to get max out of you recharge/capacity. Im still saying that you should top your spaceship command skill of the ship your flying to get to most of your ship, wich on a cane is more important then to get max defence.
Tactical management can stay at 4, only use for invuls if you don't go for caps :)

Awesome, i will go for the comp skills just incase I want to make my Loki an active shielder for mission running Cool all those skills should take me 30 days but if that's all I need to be an adequate shield tank then that's not bad at all Lol
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-10-11 19:39:01 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Thanks for the feedback Lyris, that fit does look very good. The gangs I usually fly with dont have logi support, especially not for a shield fleet. Usually its armour or nothing, what would you change around in light of this? I notice to use Shield Extender II's all i need is Shield Upgrades IV, and for an Invulnerability shield II just Tactical Shield Manipulation IV.

My shield skills are non existent but would having those skills be sufficient to fly these builds? Or would I need to work on shields extensively for a while?


With regards to shield skills—

If you can fit everything with your fitting skills and implants, then there is no reason to train Shield Upgrades beyond IV; also, while there is a demonstrable benefit to training Tactical Shield Manipulation to V it is such a small bonus to a sub-capital ship as to be negligible. I would not train it beyond IV. For buffer or passive shield tanking, as one uses with a Drake or Hurricane, one benefits from Shield Management V and Shield Operation V. Jury Rigging III and Shield Rigging I are required for the fitting of the shield rigs, unless you intend to have someone else fit them for you.

Since you are not getting love from Logistics ships, then you might consider swapping out the shield resistance rigs with medium core defence field extender rigs; but, if you do so, then you will want to train up the Shield Rigging skill to IV or so. This is because the extender rigs provide a penalty to your signature radius, which in turn reduces your effective hit points, and training the Shield Rigging skill reduces that penalty. So far as armor fits, that is stuff for another post.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-10-11 19:44:09 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
e eek'd wrote:
you could train shield compensation if your going for a active tank other then that there is no other shield skills to train up for exept jury rigging 3 and shield rigging to sue shield rigs :)
Shield managment and operation should be at 5 to get max out of you recharge/capacity. Im still saying that you should top your spaceship command skill of the ship your flying to get to most of your ship, wich on a cane is more important then to get max defence.
Tactical management can stay at 4, only use for invuls if you don't go for caps :)

Awesome, i will go for the comp skills just incase I want to make my Loki an active shielder for mission running Cool all those skills should take me 30 days but if that's all I need to be an adequate shield tank then that's not bad at all Lol

No, no, no—

You do not need to train the shield compensation skills: EM Shield Compensation, Explosive Shield Compensation, Kinetic Shield Compensation, Thermic Shield Compensation. These skills are not useful for almost any fit. These skills only contribute to the effectiveness of passive Shield Resistance Amplifies, such as the Heat Dissipation Amplifier I. These modules are almost never used; instead, most fits for both PVE and PVP use active Shield Hardeners, such as Invulnerability Field I.

The skill that was being suggested to you was the skill Shield Compensation, which reduces the capacitor used per cycle of Shield Booster modules.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#18 - 2011-10-11 21:07:19 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
e eek'd wrote:
you could train shield compensation if your going for a active tank other then that there is no other shield skills to train up for exept jury rigging 3 and shield rigging to sue shield rigs :)
Shield managment and operation should be at 5 to get max out of you recharge/capacity. Im still saying that you should top your spaceship command skill of the ship your flying to get to most of your ship, wich on a cane is more important then to get max defence.
Tactical management can stay at 4, only use for invuls if you don't go for caps :)

Awesome, i will go for the comp skills just incase I want to make my Loki an active shielder for mission running Cool all those skills should take me 30 days but if that's all I need to be an adequate shield tank then that's not bad at all Lol

No, no, no—

You do not need to train the shield compensation skills: EM Shield Compensation, Explosive Shield Compensation, Kinetic Shield Compensation, Thermic Shield Compensation. These skills are not useful for almost any fit. These skills only contribute to the effectiveness of passive Shield Resistance Amplifies, such as the Heat Dissipation Amplifier I. These modules are almost never used; instead, most fits for both PVE and PVP use active Shield Hardeners, such as Invulnerability Field I.

The skill that was being suggested to you was the skill Shield Compensation, which reduces the capacitor used per cycle of Shield Booster modules.

Wow I feel like such a noob, thanks Shocked I do get confused with the shield skills. Havent had any experience with them at all. I will skip those listed above and head straight for Shield Compensation instead Pirate
Songbird
#19 - 2011-10-12 02:41:54 UTC
I used to fly with a gang which wouldn't use ships which are not t2 or pirate faction, it was assumed that you could fly at least 2-3km/s and keep up with the rest of the fleet.

Then on the other hand if you just wanna hang around a gate or shoot at industrials and miners a BC is great.

Gotta decide what you wanna do and what does the rest of the fleet fly.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-10-12 03:07:47 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
e eek'd wrote:
you could train shield compensation if your going for a active tank other then that there is no other shield skills to train up for exept jury rigging 3 and shield rigging to sue shield rigs :)
Shield managment and operation should be at 5 to get max out of you recharge/capacity. Im still saying that you should top your spaceship command skill of the ship your flying to get to most of your ship, wich on a cane is more important then to get max defence.
Tactical management can stay at 4, only use for invuls if you don't go for caps :)

Awesome, i will go for the comp skills just incase I want to make my Loki an active shielder for mission running Cool all those skills should take me 30 days but if that's all I need to be an adequate shield tank then that's not bad at all Lol

No, no, no—

You do not need to train the shield compensation skills: EM Shield Compensation, Explosive Shield Compensation, Kinetic Shield Compensation, Thermic Shield Compensation. These skills are not useful for almost any fit. These skills only contribute to the effectiveness of passive Shield Resistance Amplifies, such as the Heat Dissipation Amplifier I. These modules are almost never used; instead, most fits for both PVE and PVP use active Shield Hardeners, such as Invulnerability Field I.

The skill that was being suggested to you was the skill Shield Compensation, which reduces the capacitor used per cycle of Shield Booster modules.

Wow I feel like such a noob, thanks Shocked I do get confused with the shield skills. Havent had any experience with them at all. I will skip those listed above and head straight for Shield Compensation instead Pirate

No problem man, don't sweat. By contrast, the ARMOR compensation skills are all very useful. It's confusing and broken. What?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

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