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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#281 - 2013-02-07 19:40:57 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2470190#post2470190
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'm Down wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm working on the next version of the BC changes now, but in the meantime two quick things to update.

Since we've announced it in CCP Seagull's Devblog, I can let you all know that the Combat BC balance pass is scheduled for the Retribution 1.1 patch on February 12th.

To reiterate, the skill split will not be happening in this patch. That change is currently scheduled for our major summer expansion.

We're also in the process of putting these changes on a public test server for you guys to play with them. Expect more news on that in the next day or so. There will definitely be changes between this posted design and what releases in 1.1, but for now the test server will have the same versions as this thread's OP. When we update the designs we'll get those onto the test server as well asap.



You still haven't addressed the problems that the skill changes will make to cloning, clone cost, upgrades and the possible skill losses from players who die after the changes with out dated clones thanks to the potential 6 million addtional skill points.


We have some plans to help mitigate those challenges but nothing quite ready to announce yet.



Would you care to comment or are you still not ready?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Pookie McPook
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
#282 - 2013-02-07 19:42:35 UTC
Looks like my bespoke Freighter alt needs to do some training before the summer. Shame he's currently training up Orca. Wasted skills all round.
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#283 - 2013-02-07 19:52:52 UTC
Mai Khumm wrote:
Question!

Quote: "If, for some odd reason, you have Destroyers and/or Battlecruisers skills, but have no Racial Frigate/Cruiser 3 at all, then the skill points will be moved in the free allocation pool when the old skills are removed."

Let's say I'm training a character for...whatever role. And I have all Racial Cruiser skills at level 1 and have Battlecruisers at level 5, do I get reimbursed for just the SP I trained, or do I get the potential SP of the 4 Racial Battlecruisers put into the free allocation pool?


You would get the existing points from the BC skill put into the pool, not 4x the existing points.

In this case it would be most productive to get all 4 racial Cruiser skills to level 3 prior to the change.

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Callic Veratar
#284 - 2013-02-07 19:57:09 UTC
Something that hasn't been repeated in here. These changes are for the summer, not next week.

That's 4 months to train things if you're really worried about prereqs, even though they shouldn't be an issue. As well, the battleship changes have been pinned to the summer by Fozzie. However, based on what came out in retribution, I wouldn't be surprised if we also get the industrials and possibly a few of the T2 classes.

Sure, the current Iteron I-IV will be useless, but the new ones probably won't be.
Omega Tron
Edge Dancers
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#285 - 2013-02-07 19:59:45 UTC
My ....
My....
My....

The numerious tears of all you who are calling this as "Bull Sh*t" is better than any I've seen on the forms for sometime now. Please continue... This is the best read I've had here in a long time. Thank you. Back to reading....

CCP's sand box is EVE Online.  The sand is owned by CCP.  We pay them a monthly fee to throw the sand at each other.  That is all that is here, so move along. Nothing more to be seen.
Kalenn Istarion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#286 - 2013-02-07 20:04:17 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:

Can you please answer directly: do we have to train skill prerequisites to progress in that skill?
To level Freighters V without Advanced Spaceships Command V, or to maximize Command ships V without all those useless links?
I dont worry about "you will able to fly" thing. I want to know if I need to maximize skills now to skip useless skills that you introduced as prerequisites for command ships today.


Independent of ships if the skill training requirements change, then yes. In order to train those skills after the expansion hits you will need those skills trained.

So for the Fenrir you will need to first have Advanced Spaceship Command at level V before you can start training Minmatar Freighter, but the prerequisite for that skill has changed.


I'm not sure that really answers what he's asking. Maybe this has been answered later in the thread but the real catch is, if I have a skill injected and partially trained (say level 3), do I then need the new pre-reqs to train it to level 4? Or can I train any injected skill regardless if its prereqs change down the road?

Try Harder.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#287 - 2013-02-07 20:06:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2470190#post2470190
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'm Down wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm working on the next version of the BC changes now, but in the meantime two quick things to update.

Since we've announced it in CCP Seagull's Devblog, I can let you all know that the Combat BC balance pass is scheduled for the Retribution 1.1 patch on February 12th.

To reiterate, the skill split will not be happening in this patch. That change is currently scheduled for our major summer expansion.

We're also in the process of putting these changes on a public test server for you guys to play with them. Expect more news on that in the next day or so. There will definitely be changes between this posted design and what releases in 1.1, but for now the test server will have the same versions as this thread's OP. When we update the designs we'll get those onto the test server as well asap.



You still haven't addressed the problems that the skill changes will make to cloning, clone cost, upgrades and the possible skill losses from players who die after the changes with out dated clones thanks to the potential 6 million addtional skill points.


We have some plans to help mitigate those challenges but nothing quite ready to announce yet.



Would you care to comment or are you still not ready?

You probably think me heartless for saying this, but really all I think they should do is have an announcement pop up the first time you log into a character saying to be sure and check your clone level vs your esperience point level as there may have been changes.

Give it a check box perhaps to not pop up again, or simply leave it at a one time only pop up per character.

If you ignore the reminder, that's on you from that point on.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#288 - 2013-02-07 20:08:56 UTC
Intex Encapor wrote:
BenFranklin wrote:
So basically I can fly every ship i could fly before -
only that my clone upgrade costs now 20 Mil instead of 13 like before at my current skillpoint due to the additional skillpoints that were added.

Costs for clones already suck now - in summer they will suck even more and makes pvp'ing with cheap ships for older characters even more unattractive than it is now.


pretty much

Stealth ISK sink. Twisted

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#289 - 2013-02-07 20:10:27 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
You probably think me heartless for saying this, but really all I think they should do is have an announcement pop up the first time you log into a character saying to be sure and check your clone level vs your esperience point level as there may have been changes.

Give it a check box perhaps to not pop up again, or simply leave it at a one time only pop up per character.

If you ignore the reminder, that's on you from that point on.

So just for clarification, you're essentially throwing yourself in with the "clone costs are fine" crowd?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tobin Shalim
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#290 - 2013-02-07 20:23:51 UTC
Apologies if this has been asked/answered already:

But for those of us that trained up BS to V to fly capital ships (or any other skill training such as this), are we to get reimbursement for the time/SP trained that you are now nerfing? Because what you're doing is making it easier for new people to get into these ships, while we spent all this time training for them in the first place, so shouldn't we get some form of SP reimbursement/compensation for this? Are we going to see this, or is it only for the racial Destroyers and BC skills?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#291 - 2013-02-07 20:25:08 UTC
Tobin Shalim wrote:
Apologies if this has been asked/answered already:

But for those of us that trained up BS to V to fly capital ships (or any other skill training such as this), are we to get reimbursement for the time/SP trained that you are now nerfing? Because what you're doing is making it easier for new people to get into these ships, while we spent all this time training for them in the first place, so shouldn't we get some form of SP reimbursement/compensation for this? Are we going to see this, or is it only for the racial Destroyers and BC skills?

No skills are being reimbursed.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#292 - 2013-02-07 20:26:55 UTC
Are clone prices ever going to get looked at?
I fly t1 frigates, but my clone costs 45m or something unless I go looking for L5 FW medical bay.
Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#293 - 2013-02-07 20:27:33 UTC
Tobin Shalim wrote:
Apologies if this has been asked/answered already:

But for those of us that trained up BS to V to fly capital ships (or any other skill training such as this), are we to get reimbursement for the time/SP trained that you are now nerfing? Because what you're doing is making it easier for new people to get into these ships, while we spent all this time training for them in the first place, so shouldn't we get some form of SP reimbursement/compensation for this? Are we going to see this, or is it only for the racial Destroyers and BC skills?

No. Things like this happen routinely and you never get sp back. The destroyers/BC situation is different because it would result in a situation where someone who was previously able to fly the ship would now be unable to fly it.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#294 - 2013-02-07 20:27:57 UTC
BenFranklin wrote:
So basically I can fly every ship i could fly before -
only that my clone upgrade costs now 20 Mil instead of 13 like before at my current skillpoint due to the additional skillpoints that were added.

Costs for clones already suck now - in summer they will suck even more and makes pvp'ing with cheap ships for older characters even more unattractive than it is now.

So far this is the only (small) legitimate gripe I see.

I'm slowly leaning more and more to a different system for clone costs, one that doesn't make flying cheap ships (or cross training another race) more than a bit absurb for older characters.

Perhaps that would be a good, small, issue to also tackle in the summer expansion.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#295 - 2013-02-07 20:31:12 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
You probably think me heartless for saying this, but really all I think they should do is have an announcement pop up the first time you log into a character saying to be sure and check your clone level vs your esperience point level as there may have been changes.

Give it a check box perhaps to not pop up again, or simply leave it at a one time only pop up per character.

If you ignore the reminder, that's on you from that point on.

So just for clarification, you're essentially throwing yourself in with the "clone costs are fine" crowd?

No, I'd actually like the current clone cost system to be changed at the same time.

However I recognize that may very well not happen... so under the current system I think this would be the simple and effective way to handle it.

Really, if you get a pop up the first time you log into each character reminding you to check your clone, I don't have a lot of sympathy for those that ignore it.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Hong Hu
Roving Guns Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#296 - 2013-02-07 20:32:43 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Just to clarify one valid question.


  • Even if the prerequisites change, you can still fly the ship as long as you had the main skill before the overhaul. This is not in question here.
  • However, if the prerequisites change, you cannot train the skill until the new prerequisites are met.


If CCP does make it so "you can fly what you could before" but not skill up further without all the pre-req met then I think CCP addresses the effort and time spent by high SP players without penalizing folks who have a minimum necessary for a given ship.

I hope CCP stays with this idea.

Regards,

Hong Hu
DancesWithVeldspar
#297 - 2013-02-07 20:44:56 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Nightlund Audeles wrote:
Oh and another thing, I would like to have the time spent training to mining barge V back please since you are removing it and making it way to easy to fly an Orca.


Nope, sorry P Mining Barge V is useful to get Exhumers however. Don't you like the soft, hypnotizing hum of Strip Miners? Dssssshh dssssshhh dsssssssh dssssssshhhh dsssssssshhhh.


Sure, but I have alts to do that for me. At the very least, please could you transfer some of my Mining Barge 5 to ORE Industrial 3? I am never going to need Mining Barge 5 but I might have a bad day and need ORE Industrial 3.
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#298 - 2013-02-07 20:45:21 UTC
Palovana wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:
Question!

Quote: "If, for some odd reason, you have Destroyers and/or Battlecruisers skills, but have no Racial Frigate/Cruiser 3 at all, then the skill points will be moved in the free allocation pool when the old skills are removed."

Let's say I'm training a character for...whatever role. And I have all Racial Cruiser skills at level 1 and have Battlecruisers at level 5, do I get reimbursed for just the SP I trained, or do I get the potential SP of the 4 Racial Battlecruisers put into the free allocation pool?


You would get the existing points from the BC skill put into the pool, not 4x the existing points.

In this case it would be most productive to get all 4 racial Cruiser skills to level 3 prior to the change.

OK, just wondering. But I'd still like a DEV to confirm, otherwise I'll bog up the petition system a lil bit...
MagnusBraxx
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#299 - 2013-02-07 20:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: MagnusBraxx
I truly believe that some of you ccp guys are ********, especialy ccp fozzie.
Jacabon Mere
Capital Storm.
Out of the Blue.
#300 - 2013-02-07 20:52:43 UTC
Why would you not change the jump drive skills to not require jdo 5.

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