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Carriers/Dreadnoughts rebalancing on the horizon?
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#41 - 2013-02-07 11:11:03 UTC
The Phoenix is laughable at anything other than structure bashing :(

You can speed tank the missiles in a freighter.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#42 - 2013-02-07 11:13:52 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
The Phoenix is laughable at anything other than structure bashing :(

You can speed tank the missiles in a freighter.


It's laughable at structure bashing, too. I have a phoenix, which is why I am training for a Moros...
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#43 - 2013-02-07 11:20:57 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
The Phoenix is laughable at anything other than structure bashing :(

You can speed tank the missiles in a freighter.
It's laughable at structure bashing, too. I have a phoenix, which is why I am training for a Moros...
I think most Phoenix pilots have already done this, or are doing it.

Those who aren't, are most likely just waiting to see if CCP will follow-through on their idea about reducing the pre-req from BS V to IV, or, are going to finally fix the Phoenix in the cap re-balance.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2013-02-07 11:58:38 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Jassmin Joy wrote:
(whats the plural to naglfar out of interest, naglfai?)


Naglf'ra ?

Reference

That's actually kind of cool.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#45 - 2013-02-07 13:33:36 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Caps are a bit of a quantum leap from battleships.

Leave them alone and create that missing content that bridges the gap between the two classes.


How would you bridge this gap? I mean, what role is there between a BS and a capital class vessel?

Battleships themselves are a bit of a struggling class outside of missioners and mass fleets.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#46 - 2013-02-07 13:51:46 UTC
T2s first; starting with the command ships. Then it'll be the caps.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#47 - 2013-02-07 17:59:06 UTC
I find the Moros to be in good spirits after the changes.

The Revelation seems fine to me as is.

The Phoenix can use more DPS and a better tank.

The Naglfar can use another weapon slot tbh. Preferably a turret slot.




The Chimera is the weakest tank of all carriers and tends to go down fast in PvP. Given that its a Logi class vessel, I don't think we should freak out about this aspect.

The Archon could maybe use some more capacitor.

The Thanny is fine as she is.

The Nidhoggur needs serous love. The slight boost to Armor and Shield remote reps just don't make up for its crappy tank in any way shape or form.


I also demand more capital hulls, at least 2 New T1 hulls for both Dreads and Carriers of each faction.

I'm sick of caps being RR blobs or POS bash gangs. I want to see actual Cap on Cap warfare, and, Cap on Sub cap warfare. I want anti-cap Dreads, anti-sub cap carriers and a whole lot of chaos inbetween.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#48 - 2013-02-07 19:20:42 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
The Phoenix is laughable at anything other than structure bashing :(

You can speed tank the missiles in a freighter.
It's laughable at structure bashing, too. I have a phoenix, which is why I am training for a Moros...
I think most Phoenix pilots have already done this, or are doing it.

Those who aren't, are most likely just waiting to see if CCP will follow-through on their idea about reducing the pre-req from BS V to IV, or, are going to finally fix the Phoenix in the cap re-balance.
Well I guess todays Devblog settles it.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#49 - 2013-02-07 20:48:51 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
The Phoenix is laughable at anything other than structure bashing :(

You can speed tank the missiles in a freighter.
It's laughable at structure bashing, too. I have a phoenix, which is why I am training for a Moros...
I think most Phoenix pilots have already done this, or are doing it.

Those who aren't, are most likely just waiting to see if CCP will follow-through on their idea about reducing the pre-req from BS V to IV, or, are going to finally fix the Phoenix in the cap re-balance.
Well I guess todays Devblog settles it.

holy crap, I'm gonna be able to fly minnie caps after this, and a titan O.o;;

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-02-08 02:08:17 UTC
They need to look at caps soon. Fixing dreadnoughts is actually pretty easy, but carriers are a bit more difficult.

Moros-nerf damage, if you ever get around to changing POSes and getting rid of bubbles, nerf the range
nag-remove split weapon systems
phoenix-change kinetic bonus to general bonus
citadel torps/cruises: fix them

The bottom line is the moros is just too damn good. A basic t1 siege moros is usually superior to fully skilled nags/phoenixes for many applications. You can buff the others, but some of the balance is going to have to come from a moros nerf.

Nidhoggur: fix fitting/cap whatever. I'm honestly not that familiar with it, but hear that it has serious issues.

Thanatos: Give it something other than a fighter damage bonus. Part of the disparity between it and the Archon is just a result of how good resistance bonuses are, so you might want to look at that as well. Currently, the only reason to train a thanny is for PvE or because you're skilling up to a Nyx. The only things it's useful for are POS repping if you don't have a chimera/nidh, PvE, and using if you can't fly an archon.

Chimera and Archon: both are mostly fine

TL;DR we're not looking for a lengthy capital tiericide or balance effort, most of this can be done with quick, easy, non-controversial fixes.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-02-08 03:01:04 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
phoenix-change kinetic bonus to general bonus


Why, exactly? The Moros is limited to thermal/kinetic and the Revelation is limited to EM/thermal. The Naglfar is different because PROJECTILES ARE BROKEN but that's a different topic altogether.

Anyway, capitals are mostly fine - the problematic ones are the Hel and Naglfar. The Hel sucks and has worthless bonuses and the Naglfar's split weapon systems are a stupid idea that should have been scrapped in 2005. The reason there is such a massive gap between armor and shield capitals is because of the fact that gang bonuses for shields were broken for years, but this has been fixed - there's really no way to fix the fact that shield capitals will remain unfavorable since virtually every capital fleet is dominated by armor.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#52 - 2013-02-08 03:06:38 UTC
Andski wrote:
there's really no way to fix the fact that shield capitals will remain unfavorable since virtually every capital fleet is dominated by armor.


Actually, making crosstraining between racial capitals easier would go some way towards fixing the problem of capital inertia.

What? You say that CCP is making crosstraining between racial capitals radically easier?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-02-08 03:06:47 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
I'm sick of caps being RR blobs or POS bash gangs. I want to see actual Cap on Cap warfare, and, Cap on Sub cap warfare. I want anti-cap Dreads, anti-sub cap carriers and a whole lot of chaos inbetween.


oh, you want cap on subcap warfare and anti-subcap carriers? man what a tough call, oh wait

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-02-08 03:13:25 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Actually, making crosstraining between racial capitals easier would go some way towards fixing the problem of capital inertia.

What? You say that CCP is making crosstraining between racial capitals radically easier?


Why would I spend close to a year training another 6 billion ISK in skillbooks because CCP removed ~40 days from capital prereqs, especially when my main capital alt has every Gallente capital skill to 5 (except titan 5, which is 12 days from completion)?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#55 - 2013-02-08 03:19:25 UTC
Andski wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Actually, making crosstraining between racial capitals easier would go some way towards fixing the problem of capital inertia.

What? You say that CCP is making crosstraining between racial capitals radically easier?


Why would I spend close to a year training another 6 billion ISK in skillbooks because CCP removed ~40 days from capital prereqs, especially when my main capital alt has every Gallente capital skill to 5 (except titan 5, which is 12 days from completion)?


Fair enough. I'll admit that I didn't think about Supers.

The changes make my Capital alt happy, since he'll be doing the Archon/Moros thing, and the 40d represents quite a lot of time since he's already in a Thanatos.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-02-08 03:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Error
Andski wrote:
Eternal Error wrote:
phoenix-change kinetic bonus to general bonus


Why, exactly? The Moros is limited to thermal/kinetic and the Revelation is limited to EM/thermal. The Naglfar is different because PROJECTILES ARE BROKEN but that's a different topic altogether.

Because having selectable damage type but lower dps than one or two of the other dreads would be more interesting than just buffing it to the exact same dps level. It would also give it an advantage for POS bashing (I'm kind of going under the assumption that CCP won't ACTUALLY fix capital missiles, so for a quick fix I'd give the phoenix an advantage for structure bashing).

I'm not exactly throwing out stellar suggestions here, just something to make them not a complete ******* joke in the interim.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#57 - 2013-02-08 06:47:44 UTC
Andski wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
I'm sick of caps being RR blobs or POS bash gangs. I want to see actual Cap on Cap warfare, and, Cap on Sub cap warfare. I want anti-cap Dreads, anti-sub cap carriers and a whole lot of chaos inbetween.


oh, you want cap on subcap warfare and anti-subcap carriers? man what a tough call, oh wait


Cap blob with sub cap support is still cap blob with support.

BLob enough of something and you can kill anything.

Mute point much?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-02-08 06:49:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Asuka Solo wrote:
Cap blob with sub cap support is still cap blob with support.

BLob enough of something and you can kill anything.

Mute point much?


no, you're just clueless about caps, vOv

also the subcaps were bridged in just to get on killmails - they did not play a role in deciding the fight (hint: having a supertanked instalocking T3 target-paint you with hundreds of sentry drones assigned to it means you're dead)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#59 - 2013-02-08 08:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Andski wrote:
(hint: having a supertanked instalocking T3 target-paint you with hundreds of sentry drones assigned to it means you're dead)


I must have missed the drone skills that allow me to control a hundred assigned drones from a single ship.....


Now if you had said guarding.....

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-02-08 08:45:30 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
I must have missed the drone skills that allow me to control a hundred assigned drones from a single ship.....


Now if you had said guarding.....


"Assisting"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar