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Dev Blog: Little Things From Super Friends!

First post First post
Author
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#81 - 2013-02-06 21:50:40 UTC
So if nobody has time for a 24 hour timer to be able to shoot at somebody, why is the timer for a war to start after it has been declared remaining 24 hours?

Remember that an ally joining a war is functionally identical to them declaring war on the corp that declared that war. Except it's totally free and now near-instant.

Don't get me wrong, shortening the times involved in wars is great, and this will only stand to benefit me as a merc, but it's dumb and makes war a less attractive tool for the average highsec joe to constantly stack the ally system to advantage the defender. It's yet another "If you declare war on someone you have to deal with this BS." feature.
Souchek Lehman
Doomheim
#82 - 2013-02-06 23:36:24 UTC
Expanded Alliance picture.
I love you guys.

TEN THOUSAND YEARS - Recruiting chill dudes for exploration! In game channel - 10k lounge

FoxFire Ayderan
#83 - 2013-02-07 00:02:25 UTC

"Ain't nobody got time fo dat!"

LOFL

Marsan
#84 - 2013-02-07 03:01:14 UTC
Besbin wrote:
Marsan wrote:
Whee more fixes to "staying docked up online" I mean wars. Either give wars a point or give up on them and work on something less lame. Until there is some way for defenders to win a war then there is no point for a defender to fight an attacker. As things are now the attackers rarely ever undocks without a x2-4 advantage, and instead hang out in pipes and trade hubs to pick off the idiots and newbies. There is something wrong with a war where the best way to "win" is to dock up and play world of tanks...

PS- Don't take this as me disliking Team Super Friends as they have improved the game greatly, but this is like putting a band-aide on a sucking chest wound. Sorry Punkturis best wishes on your forth coming bundle of joy/ sleep terrorist....


Why don't you spend that docked up time finding yourself some allies that can come wup the attackers' asses?


You obviously didn't read my post. "As things are now the attackers rarely ever undocks without a x2-4 advantage, and instead hang out in pipes and trade hubs to pick off the idiots and newbies." There is no point as the attacker will simply dock up if if the odds aren't wildly in their favor. I've never seen a war target undock for anything other than station games if they don't have a 2:1 advantage. Attempting to engage an attacker tends to just encourages them to continue the war. I don't need allies I need a way to insure a fight that will settle the war rather than an annoying and boring station/gate camp.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#85 - 2013-02-07 03:25:33 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
My last dev blog before I go on maternity leave (don't worry, I'll be back) so you better leave nice comments!!! Blink


Congratulations! We'll miss you.

And uhm... nice blog, but that's it? Was hoping for more little things Twisted

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#86 - 2013-02-07 05:26:09 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
looking forward to the skillpoint display in the medical window Big smile
These Little Things really do matter Smile


Have that window pop up when you get podded and/or try to undock without an upgraded clone and CCP will be half way towards fixing clones.

The other half is the crazy prices.
Uncle Gagarin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#87 - 2013-02-07 05:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Uncle Gagarin
Well, I found on e-bay a nice one red button. seller tells that it's from old soviet nuclear base but I not tested it yet.
I will do this however if you will not take look at:

- drone UI window
- fitting panel - replacing tech3 subsystems is bugged, "added slots" remain hilighted if you hover over susbsystems in your items hangar.
I guess that it's simple to fix, guessed is that drawing loop goes over actual, actual+new slots then again over actual missing drawed "new" one. It could loop over all slots I guess there is some hard limit for them, and for not present ones just clear highlights.

- trade UI - ISK offer should be locked same way as it is done for items, trade should be two step 1 - both sides make an offer, items/cahce is locked then 2 - both sides hit "accept" or "finalize trade" button and trade is performed if both accepted.

- colouring missions in "Active missions" panel on neocom, green - objective complete, yelow - destination set, white all others.

Other suggestion of UI changes can come, but I believe for these (POS, Corp management, Industry) I'm affraid a single red button is not enough. I plan some aliance with cannibals tribe :) to convince CCP that changes are worth time ;). Seriously speaking - these I know are subject for bigger project and require a lot more effort to implement.

Cheers.

Edit: I forgot to say - thanks for actual efforts, improvement is always welcome.
SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-02-07 07:52:40 UTC
Nice things


the only thing I miss is that when you get podded and end up in your medical clone
it "AUTOMATICLY" get upgraded to the previous level. (If enough isk is in wallet)

I don't see a reason why someone don't want to upgrade there clone to the previous level.



Alundil
Rolled Out
#89 - 2013-02-07 14:35:10 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
My last dev blog before I go on maternity leave (don't worry, I'll be back) so you better leave nice comments!!! Blink


Congratulations on the new addition. Enjoy.

I'm right behind you

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#90 - 2013-02-07 14:40:52 UTC
Thank you - now you just have to tweak a few game mechanics to make sure empire wars can evolve from docking games into something potentially more fun...

First of all docking games is an issue 2 reasons:

  1. Heavy hitpoint ships easily capable of docking only 60 seconds after having stopped agressing
  2. Station docking range


Currently all ships will be rebalanced and battlecruisers already lost a lot of hitpoints. Battleships are pretty much next and that leaves only Strategic Cruisers (T3) and perhaps some of the command ships a problem (looking completely away from carriers in lowsec). The worst combination from my experience being armor buffered T3 cruisers with slave sets. Lets see what happens to those before further complaining...

So station docking range :

Many stations have a huge docking sphere around them and it allows griefers to effectively camp stations in relative safety because if they in trouble they just have to stay alive for a minute (easy for a prepared griefer) without undocking enemies to ever become a real threat.
I have full understanding for the poor programmers to find a solution, but people should be within a fixed ~10km of the station to dock and people within 25km should not be allowed to activate their weapons... sort of like smartbombs but for everything.

Pinky Denmark

PS. I was never griefed - was mostly the other way around except we always went for a challenge...
Jesspa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-02-07 17:05:28 UTC
I've done a quick search of the forums and can't find any other mention of this so I thought I'd post it here as an annoying 'little thing'.

Why is it that when I click 'Align to', e.g. to a station so that I can warp out in a hurry if I need to, my ship not only aligns to that object, but then proceeds to fly towards it at maximum (non-warp) speed? That doesn't make sense to me! My ship should align and then just stop. It should be a case of 'manoeuvring thrusters only', not my ship's main engines.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#92 - 2013-02-07 19:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Jesspa wrote:
I've done a quick search of the forums and can't find any other mention of this so I thought I'd post it here as an annoying 'little thing'.

Why is it that when I click 'Align to', e.g. to a station so that I can warp out in a hurry if I need to, my ship not only aligns to that object, but then proceeds to fly towards it at maximum (non-warp) speed? That doesn't make sense to me! My ship should align and then just stop. It should be a case of 'manoeuvring thrusters only', not my ship's main engines.


EVE represents your ship as a vector whose length is defined by your ship's velocity. If you're stopped, your ship is a vector of length 0, i.e., a point, i.e., something that does not imply any direction at all. The visual orientation of your ship is rendered by the client, not the server.

If you align and then manually slow your ship down, you can reduce your time-to-warp to the time it takes to accelerate. If you stop your ship, you have to align all over again.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

David Zahavi
Doomheim
#93 - 2013-02-07 19:51:33 UTC
While fixing war dec problems.... can you PLEASE PLEASE fix this issue with corps letting a war dec drop, just to immediately redec at a reduced price.

This is beyond an exploit and has been used against a few corps I'm in. It doesn't make sense. If you wanna have a perma war, pay for it. If you want to let the war dec drop, let it drop.

Maybe force a CD after a war dec drops for at least 1 week? Or force the previous price increase to remain in effect for a period of time? Something else? But please fix it.

Right now it is only used as a means to grief players on the cheap, something I doubt CCP had in mind.
Proddy Scun
Doomheim
#94 - 2013-02-07 21:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Proddy Scun
CCP Punkturis wrote:
My last dev blog before I go on maternity leave (don't worry, I'll be back) so you better leave nice comments!!! Blink


Congrats! Nice to know some CCP employees have extra spirit. Enough to bud off a clone apparently :)
(Say is CCP putting that clone to work on EVE as soon as Maternity leave is over? Tuxford must feel threatened if so :) )



Two weeks for peace seems perfect. Long enough to mine and rebuild Dreadnaughts especially if you depend on hi sec commerce (hey not everyone has big null sec safe area where you can get all mats and build everything). Long enough to flesh out a few dings in corp/alliance fleets if you made a couple mistakes during wardec.

However, no corp nor alliance should be guaranteed to live and rule forever through a forced peace process. There still needs to be a way to put enough pressure on a corp or alliance to eventually force its dissolution or physical abandonment of all sovereignty over a wide area - ideally some mass POS abandonment. So longer breaks would get sort of pointless.

Maybe cease fire would be a better term than peace?


Also I sort of favor the idea that toons for inactive accounts should automatically get kicked to a special corp similar to deleted toons. Its really sort of an exploit to knowingly retain inactive accounts in a corp or alliance. I am sure some smaller miner corps buff up with trial toons to look bigger. PLUS really huge corps and alliance probably do not know how many active toons they have unless they put in a lot of administrative effort. Many corps would probably be grateful to know when important but somewhat anonymous toons of the grand fleet decide not to renew. LOL - and even if you kick inactives to holding corps -- there will still be huge numbers of paid up yearly accounts that go silent for most of a year.


In the end rejoining corps isn't that hard if inactives become active again....assuming corp wasn't half thinking of kicking them anyway.
Proddy Scun
Doomheim
#95 - 2013-02-07 22:28:50 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So if nobody has time for a 24 hour timer to be able to shoot at somebody, why is the timer for a war to start after it has been declared remaining 24 hours?

Remember that an ally joining a war is functionally identical to them declaring war on the corp that declared that war. Except it's totally free and now near-instant.

Don't get me wrong, shortening the times involved in wars is great, and this will only stand to benefit me as a merc, but it's dumb and makes war a less attractive tool for the average highsec joe to constantly stack the ally system to advantage the defender. It's yet another "If you declare war on someone you have to deal with this BS." feature.



I do have some questions similar to yours on the whole reinforce for free aspect -- but not on the time to join. And even my question about cost of allies bends toward reduced costs for allies both attackers and defenders -- just not sure how reduced.

But to be honest denying allies would continue to artificially favor the attackers since they choose the size of target and the initial timing. 20 hours delay of allies however doesn't seem worth arguing over. You must be great mercs if you can win most wars in 24 hours! Seriously what corp can't afford to hole up for 20 hours?

IdeaIf you are going to fight for delay in time of allies...I'd say fight for an entire weeks delay for allies coming in at greatest reduced costs.Idea

But given that allies have always had the option to declare a separate wardec immediately, there should always be cost reduction proportional to entry delay. Maybe you want to fight for reduction in costs to come at price of declaring intent hours or days before actual entry -- though really CCP isn't going to favor something which tends to just extend the no action time as outclassed corp wait in station and stalls.




Big smile Otherwise the CCP objective is clear -- bigger wars and bigger fleets -- more excitement (good marketing and player retention idea). CCP does not care who wins....except that maybe that the outcome of the war is not fixed by the aggressors choice of target.

A really good full service merc corp needs a diplomatic/political dimension too. CCP encourages some background diplomatic drama too. If such hotair antics are not your cup of tea...try teaming up with someone with patience to spy out informal allies and friends before you declare war. Actually you can mine some of that data by just bothering to look for past allies and former alliance corps. Allies do not have to be total surprise. And if allies are not surprise, well then you are asking for something that is not going to be guaranteed anymore...

LOL - the ideal wardec aggressor situation is obviously CONCORD enforcement of 1 wardec involvement per corp/alliance and no allies and no target surrender except via target players leaving corp. Select a much smaller corp then bludgeon them to death while CONCORD ensures everyone else is just spectator. Not very good for EVE player retention when growing from small corp/alliance option is supposed to be part of the appeal. If that is the only way you can have fun, seek another game and professional help in RL before you make the evening news in a bad way.




Proddy Scun
Doomheim
#96 - 2013-02-07 23:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Proddy Scun
Don Swanson wrote:
Callduron wrote:
[quote=CCP Punkturis]War cost
Inactive characters don't count in war cost any longer.


Can we get some clarity on this part, what is considered inactive?


Initially confusing - but as soon as someone mentioned inactive accounts, it was clear that toons connected to inactive accounts are the only thing CCP would likely be talking about. CCP has inactive account info as #1 most available pre-computed data. Almost zero CPU cost to use it and its 100% definitive without discussion.

Also CCP is willing to predict that most unpaid accounts will not be used during wardec (<10%revival per year last I heard). But CCP is probably not willing to speculate on how many paid up accounts might see, new activity during a wardec. At least not unless the length of inactivity was so long (e.g. 6 months) that unpaid status was likely to also occurred. Power of the phone call and CCP doesn't know you RL schedules.

I am sure CCP would have defined the length of time if they meant toons are considered inactive due to lack of activity despite being on paid up account.

Plus Tracking toons by last logon is slightly more complex than last account logon - possibly requiring actual second level hard drive look up if not accessed during current game day. Lot of optional data is not on SSD if it hasn't been used lately. Then too data for the current day on SSD may not yet be 100% synchronized with second level hard storage. What if the toon just logged on? And inactive toon by time would be a matter for debate both within CCP and in community

So yeah toon inactivity (over time) as opposed to inactive (unpaid) account can be done. But its not quite as easy and would have led to mention of time length.
Proddy Scun
Doomheim
#97 - 2013-02-07 23:41:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Proddy Scun
Vincent Athena wrote:
Thanks for the work. The 4 hours for an ally to join will help when it comes to POS defense. But I'm a little concerned that this

"Forced Peace
To make the surrender option in a war more meaningful, we've now made it so that if one entity surrenders to another, those two have a forced peace period of two weeks."

will not have the desired effect. Defending corps do not like to surrender as afterwards they are seen as ISK pinatas. All the attacker need do after accepting a surrender is set up a new corp and have most of their PvP pilots move to it. Then dec again to slurp up another surrender payment.

But I got no better ideas.


Depends on the type of aggressor. Most aggressors are out to build bad-ass wardec reputation for specific corop or alliance --- bragging rights that all can see. So they are unlikely to switch corp shells very much as a unit. True some individual players might if no other wardecs are going on. But you won't face the whole group or major portion as a unit again until peaces is over.

However, pure pirates funding other toons and game spoilers/vengeful types whose only fun is to drive selected players from game - will do whatever it takes to milk your ISK and destroy your assets. There is no mechanic that can stop this. If they can't swap corp they will bring in alts. These players tend to dump lots of PLEX to get started and then become extremely skill at PVP ambushes and rule bending -- quickly achieving multiple PLEX paid high skill accounts and maintain multitude of trial accounts for dirty deeds.

...and they are probably the BEST feature of EVE filling that niche between predictable NPC rats and inescapable CONCORD in hi sec. Without such evil minded players EVE would become static and boring. Spoilers and pirates force perfectly viable corps and alliances to break up and new ones to form in different locations. Get targeted by a relentless player pirate and get an opportunity to make new friends in a new corp far far away.

PS Defenders have the same option -- form new corp and change area of operation. If a few of your more prominent easy targets temporarily (3-4 days) operate in yet a different location as NPC corp members in hi sec...most pirates will lose track of or interest in your group. Faster than 2 week peace if you are not too attached to corp name or location.
Proddy Scun
Doomheim
#98 - 2013-02-08 00:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Proddy Scun
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So if nobody has time for a 24 hour timer to be able to shoot at somebody, why is the timer for a war to start after it has been declared remaining 24 hours?

Remember that an ally joining a war is functionally identical to them declaring war on the corp that declared that war. Except it's totally free and now near-instant.

Don't get me wrong, shortening the times involved in wars is great, and this will only stand to benefit me as a merc, but it's dumb and makes war a less attractive tool for the average highsec joe to constantly stack the ally system to advantage the defender. It's yet another "If you declare war on someone you have to deal with this BS." feature.



Perhaps it would be more fair to aggressors to limit the defenders free allies to the size of war paid for by aggressor.

That is aggressors would pay fees by by whichever is larger -- their numbers or original wardec target corp/alliance numbers -- each week to sustain wardec. If defenders have fewer numbers they can add allies up to numbers matching aggressors for free.

But if defenders want to outnumber aggressors by adding allies they would have to pay difference in fees for increased size of wardec. Aggressors get to recruit free allies until equal in number to defenders increased numbers. Defenders being responsible each war dec period for fees to raise number of participants above last aggressor paid limits.

Of course defenders pay nothing if they outnumber aggressors without adding allies -- that was aggressors choice at beginning of wardec.

Either side could then continue expanding beyond current paid wardec size by paying for additional numbers of participants - the aggressor only becoming responsible for increased fees to sustain wardec after it makes an expansion (i.e. aggressor assumes responsibility for all prior expansions to number of participants by either side whenever it makes a further increase in numbers.)

Sort of a modified mutual war scheme. Defenders paying difference to raise participant ante unless defenders call that and raise number of participant ante again.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#99 - 2013-02-08 02:52:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Nice changes. I appreciate the work you do.

I don't want to get all negative nancy but why does it take so long to get small changes like this through? I mean you seem to have a big enough team and I know you can make changes people want to see...but what else is there behind the scenes that make such simple changes so few? Are UI changes pretty hard at this stage in the game? Is there a process to get these approved? Are you all on several teams working on higher priority items?

Again, I'm not trying to belittle what you do. I just see changes that happen and some that have been requested for awhile (and have suggested numerous times) never get implemented. Is there a process? Is there a list of priority items to change? I tend to get a bit frustrated making the same requests in the same threads asking for "little things" and see them never mentioned. I see a lot of good ideas by others in those threads too that never seem to get done but seem very simple to do. I also never see a hey, these are our plans for UI changes...or a list of the top requested items (although somewhat mentioned in the blogs later).

Can you shed some light on the process? Thanks again.

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Jesspa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2013-02-08 10:00:46 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Jesspa wrote:
I've done a quick search of the forums and can't find any other mention of this so I thought I'd post it here as an annoying 'little thing'.

Why is it that when I click 'Align to', e.g. to a station so that I can warp out in a hurry if I need to, my ship not only aligns to that object, but then proceeds to fly towards it at maximum (non-warp) speed? That doesn't make sense to me! My ship should align and then just stop. It should be a case of 'manoeuvring thrusters only', not my ship's main engines.


EVE represents your ship as a vector whose length is defined by your ship's velocity. If you're stopped, your ship is a vector of length 0, i.e., a point, i.e., something that does not imply any direction at all. The visual orientation of your ship is rendered by the client, not the server.

If you align and then manually slow your ship down, you can reduce your time-to-warp to the time it takes to accelerate. If you stop your ship, you have to align all over again.


That's really useful and interesting, I did not know that. Thanks for taking the time. At least now I understand how the situation arises. However, translating EVE to 'real life', it still feels like 'align to' should just point me in the right direction rather than start taking me there. But if the game mechanics aren't designed that way I guess it wouldn't be a trivial change.