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Eve Central and the Contribtastic
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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-02-06 00:38:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Dallas
Isn't it against the EULA to use macro's? If so isn't the EVE Central Contribtastic "which gets the client to search market for the item that EVE Central need." which is against the EULA isn't it?

I know its one of those things that CCP will probably ignore because it actually helps the game but it does make a grey area I'm not happy with.
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#2 - 2013-02-06 00:58:04 UTC
The scraper does not perform any in game action.

It reads data from the market cache files on your computer.

Its not a macro, or a violation of the EULA/TOS

yes
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-02-06 01:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Dallas
Alex Grison wrote:
The scraper does not perform any in game action.

It reads data from the market cache files on your computer.

Its not a macro, or a violation of the EULA/TOS


Quote:
EVE EULA S6 SS6

You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


And considering I and many other use EVE Central for market trading which would be MUCH harder and be MUCH less profitable without such a tool tech it is against the EULA.
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#4 - 2013-02-06 01:34:11 UTC
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
"which grabs market data with a macro and uploads it to EVE Central"


No it doesn't, and CCP have already posted their opinion on reading the cache

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=734561&page=1#9

--
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-02-06 01:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxanne Dallas
Ydnari wrote:
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
"which grabs market data with a macro and uploads it to EVE Central"


No it doesn't, and CCP have already posted their opinion on reading the cache

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=734561&page=1#9


Actually it uses a macro to get the market to search the item on the market that it wants uploading if you have to be technical... Seems a little nit picky to me.

Especially considering the last bit "You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game" But under the needed to encompass Contribtastic that would make even applications that use the EVE API against the EULA.

We will just put that down to bad wording shall we, the defintion I think they were looking for would have been better served by saying not "data" and something like "...Client files, assets, or the server or the connection to the server..." because data is such a board term.

but the first sentence would still mean that Contribtastic is in violation of the EULA.

"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."

Although I must admit I am being a little nit picky as well considering EVE Central has been about for ages and not a peep has came out of CCP so either way it doesn't matter, Its was more a point of interest.
Scion Lex
LEX Investments
#6 - 2013-02-06 05:15:48 UTC
..and porn is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#7 - 2013-02-06 06:21:31 UTC
Roxanne Dallas wrote:


And considering I and many other use EVE Central for market trading which would be MUCH harder and be MUCH less profitable without such a tool tech it is against the EULA.


You'd have to recognise that I use EVE central without the scraper and derive the same benefits, and you also invite traders who do so to compete with you by revealing your trade routes, without them doing the same for you.

ie manifestly eve central is not an ingame advantage to the user of the scraper.
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#8 - 2013-02-06 20:15:51 UTC
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
The scraper does not perform any in game action.

It reads data from the market cache files on your computer.

Its not a macro, or a violation of the EULA/TOS


Quote:
EVE EULA S6 SS6

You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


And considering I and many other use EVE Central for market trading which would be MUCH harder and be MUCH less profitable without such a tool tech it is against the EULA.


It does none of those things.

And its up to CCP to decide if something is against the EULA. If CCP thought that evecentral was a violatio, they would have done something about it a long time ago.

yes
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#9 - 2013-02-06 20:16:42 UTC
Scion Lex wrote:
..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't.


Porn is very different than prostitution.

Porn actors are actors that are paid to act.

Prostitutes are being paid for sex.

yes
Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
#10 - 2013-02-06 21:09:16 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:
Scion Lex wrote:
..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't.


**** is very different than prostitution.

**** actors are actors that are paid to act.

Prostitutes are being paid for sex.


Paid to act? In porn? That's like saying prosititutes aren't paind for sex, their paid to leave.
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#11 - 2013-02-06 21:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Grison
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
Scion Lex wrote:
..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't.


**** is very different than prostitution.

**** actors are actors that are paid to act.

Prostitutes are being paid for sex.


Paid to act? In ****? That's like saying prosititutes aren't paind for sex, their paid to leave.


Yes, that is the legal distinction. Po­rn films are the same as movies. The people in them are paid to act. just like any other actors in any other film.

A prostitute is someone who is paid for sex.

Anytime you pay someone for sex that is prostitution.

If you pay for someone to be an actor then they are acting.


The reason that there are never "mix ups" is because people who produce porn videos do not walk around the streets looking for people to be actors.

If you get together with a prostitute and are busted by a cop, the excuse of "We are making porn" wouldn't cut it. You would be arrested, and you would have to argue that case to the judge.

yes
Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
#12 - 2013-02-06 21:15:10 UTC
EveCentral uses to players to download market info for them. In other words, the player base is the Macro.
Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
#13 - 2013-02-06 21:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Reuben Johnson
Alex Grison wrote:
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
Scion Lex wrote:
..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't.


**** is very different than prostitution.

**** actors are actors that are paid to act.

Prostitutes are being paid for sex.


Paid to act? In ****? That's like saying prosititutes aren't paind for sex, their paid to leave.


Yes, that is the legal distinction. Po­rn films are the same as movies. They people in them are paid to act.

A prostitute is someone who is paid for sex.

Anytime you pay someone for sex that is prostitution.

If you pay for someone to be an actor then they are acting.


The reason that there are never "mix ups" is because people who produce **** videos do not walk around the streets looking for people to be actors.

If you get together with a prostitute and are busted by a cop, the excuse of "We are making ****" wouldn't cut it. You would be arrested, and you would have to argue case to the judge.


You're assuming their's "acting" in porn. paying 2 people (or more) to have sex while you watch is prositution. You don't have to be a direct participant. Paying a Pimp (say, Vivid) to to record two people is still a form of prostitution.
And if you think their is nay acting in porn, you've obviously never watched porn.

Edit, nevermind this post, I missread the above quote reply
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#14 - 2013-02-06 21:23:30 UTC
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
Scion Lex wrote:
..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't.


**** is very different than prostitution.

**** actors are actors that are paid to act.

Prostitutes are being paid for sex.


Paid to act? In ****? That's like saying prosititutes aren't paind for sex, their paid to leave.


Yes, that is the legal distinction. Po­rn films are the same as movies. They people in them are paid to act.

A prostitute is someone who is paid for sex.

Anytime you pay someone for sex that is prostitution.

If you pay for someone to be an actor then they are acting.


The reason that there are never "mix ups" is because people who produce **** videos do not walk around the streets looking for people to be actors.

If you get together with a prostitute and are busted by a cop, the excuse of "We are making ****" wouldn't cut it. You would be arrested, and you would have to argue case to the judge.


You're assuming their's "acting" in ****. paying 2 people (or more) to have sex while you watch is prositution. You don't have to be a direct participant. Paying a Pimp (say, Vivid) to to record two people is still a form of prostitution.
And if you think their is nay acting in ****, you've obviously never watched ****.


I am talking about the Legal Distinction Between porn and prostitution.

Porn is legal to produce in the US ( where I am from )

Prostitution is illegal in the large majority of the US.

The reason that porn is legal is because they are not being paid for sex. They are being paid to be an actor. What the actor does, is up to the producers. And is protected by the first amendment.

yes
Minerva Zen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-02-06 22:53:12 UTC
Fly Gallente: You can haz teh holoreels!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#16 - 2013-02-07 00:14:57 UTC
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
Actually it uses a macro to get the market to search the item on the market that it wants uploading if you have to be technical... Seems a little nit picky to me.


Nope, it uses tools that CCP built into the EVE Online browser in a way that CCP explicitly endorses.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Dex Thunakar
Evil Genius Organisation
#17 - 2013-02-08 09:24:29 UTC
lol I don't see anything about eve-central that goes against the EULA

it rly does not involve any form of macroing whatsoever... unless you call reading text files on your computer macroing.
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-02-10 01:17:37 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Roxanne Dallas wrote:


And considering I and many other use EVE Central for market trading which would be MUCH harder and be MUCH less profitable without such a tool tech it is against the EULA.


You'd have to recognise that I use EVE central without the scraper and derive the same benefits, and you also invite traders who do so to compete with you by revealing your trade routes, without them doing the same for you.

ie manifestly eve central is not an ingame advantage to the user of the scraper.


Eve central is as much a benefit to me as it is to anyone who uses it. And if you updated its records more often it would be of even greater usage to you and everyone in the station you are in.

Flawed logic my dear friend. also it does not state that it has to be your advantage

"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."

The only part where it says you is to say that you may not use the software that...

So yeah you could be f***ing robin hood they would still ban you, or take the money that you gave away.
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-02-10 01:19:33 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
The scraper does not perform any in game action.

It reads data from the market cache files on your computer.

Its not a macro, or a violation of the EULA/TOS


Quote:
EVE EULA S6 SS6

You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


And considering I and many other use EVE Central for market trading which would be MUCH harder and be MUCH less profitable without such a tool tech it is against the EULA.


It does none of those things.

And its up to CCP to decide if something is against the EULA. If CCP thought that evecentral was a violatio, they would have done something about it a long time ago.



Didn't I say that here "Although I must admit I am being a little nit picky as well considering EVE Central has been about for ages and not a peep has came out of CCP so either way it doesn't matter, Its was more a point of interest."
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-02-10 01:48:26 UTC
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."


I'm sure there are interpretations, but my interpretation of this statement is "in game"

IE, eve central may help me to figure out profitability of an item to purchase in game. But it is not purchasing the item for me in game. I am doing that when I right click "buy"

When that statement talks about acquisition of objects etc, IMO it is talking about just that. Buying the objects for instance. I don't have a macro creating 100 buy orders. I am creating 100 buy orders. Whether I used an external resource to figure out what to create 100 buy orders for is not relevant here.
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