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damage control
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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#21 - 2013-02-06 12:32:32 UTC
Amarant'h wrote:
Example about ratting:

You trade your low slot on cap recharge module, and you can keep your repair/shield booster on unlimited time, that will grant you unlimited hitpoints under certain conditions.
Its way better than having more resists and unstable capacitor.


More resists means that you need less tank. Cap stability is another safety blanket. It is absolutely not required, but a lot of people like to easy-mode missions by having a perma-tank. The down side to this approach is that your missions will take longer. Much longer, because cap stability will take a lot more than just 1 low slot.
sandamar
Valiant Bastard
#22 - 2013-02-06 15:16:38 UTC
Or you can toss in a deadspace shield booster and there you go :)
Predator989
Kurupt.
Sedition.
#23 - 2013-02-06 15:23:04 UTC
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
I fly a shield Machariel, and my 7th low is always a DCUII. If you're running an armor setup I can see the argument about defensive efficiency. But I couldn't even begin to calculate the hundreds of thousands of points of damage that little briefcase has shrugged off my shields in the course of its career. Resists can always stand to be higher, even after mission hardeners. The shielded Machariel of course has an advantage with a low to spare after gyros and TEs.


I've never needed a DCU tech 2 on my mach.....ever in standard level 4s. Most missions I won't even run the booster for more than 2-3 cycles.


All you need for level 4s if you know you won't get ganked or are paying even the slightest attention:

4x faction gyro and 3x faction(or non-faction) TE
deadspace micro, deadspace booster, 2x whatever hardeners (mostly invuls...sometimes em/therm) and 1x tracking computer (faction if you want a bit more tracking)
7x 800mm's, 1x tractor

1k dps (falloff changes this but w/e)
490 dps tank without crystals 731 overheated (729 with and over 1k overheated)
1.5km/s

Most level 4s are laughable compared to it. Sadly, the next ship I like to fly besides it would be the kronos, and its only worth it against npc's weak to kinetic that like to sit at range.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#24 - 2013-02-06 17:06:27 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
PvE can be 'dps tanked' meaning you kill everything so fast you don't need to worry about actual tank.

A damage control will also add EHP to shield, armor and stucture. In PvE you are only tanking with 1 of those 3 so the other EHP is not as great as it seems.

If you are killing things so slowly that you need a damage control to increase your EHP then you are doing it wrong.


In particular, a Damage Control gives only a small boost to shield EHP, a larger boost to armour EHP, and an even larger boost to hull EHP.

This means that it's not too useful for shield tankers. I'll still fit one, if I'm not quite sure what I'm doing with my ship, or if I'm entering a new kind of PVE. But I do think Damage Control modules are more useful for armour tankers (and even more so for hull tankers, although I believe that's quite hypothetical).

As for the "DPS tanking" you refer to, I prefer to call that "active ganking".
Selw kotsidakia
Three Deep Cuts
#25 - 2013-02-06 20:24:27 UTC
Most of the incoming damage in pve is spread among 2 types. On which you will focus your defences either on armor or shield. A damage control gives all resistances on hull shield and armor. So from the 12 resistances it gives, only 2 are used. Now you want a slight increase on resistances or more dps/dmg prejection/cap/etc? While in some specific circumstances a dcII is a pretty good idea(incursions, trying a new ship, expecting heavy damage) especially in solo mission/ratting content, there are better choises for that low slot.
GreenSeed
#26 - 2013-02-06 21:21:53 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Hi can anyone tell me why damage control is not for pve ships? I read this somewhere and i cant figure out why. The dc gives your ship a ton of ehp does it not count in pve?



a DCUII offers tank in all 3 layers, hull, armor and shield, on PVE you will want to specialize in only one layer and you will stay in that layer alone by using "reppers" either armor or shield. so the resists offered in the other two layers are moot.

it is still a good module and all mission runners should consider it, should a low slot become available. the resists a DCU can provide wont be stack penalized, they will whoever receive the penalty for total % of resists. so if you have a resist at 90% a DCU will give you something like 3%, that 3% will still be WAY better than what any other module could provide at that point. not to mention the 60% on hull will eventually save your ship should you draw wife agro.

another reason is to offer "cheap tank" to expensive ships, a good example is a Tengu, usually mission runners will plug the EM hole and move on, but non stack penalized resists over 85% and 70% are too good to pass. and a fourth BCUII is usually overkill. given that laughable 10k EHP a full passive tengu has, a DCUII becomes the best choice, more so considering all the 3bill+ Tengus out there... What?

personally i drop the Amp nodes in exchange for Supplemental screening and fit one LSEII (45k ehp) + 2 pasive EM Amps and use the low for a nano instead of a DCUII, but thats just me. (i also limit all ships to T2 on principle.Lol)
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-02-07 00:13:27 UTC
As an armor tanker, i like to carry the DCU II, it makes things a lot safer when im scramed and the socket closes. Ive had ships die to lag or distraction, and ive saved myself with single digit hull from connection issues multiple times.

I can and often do plan my fittings for perfect scenarios where i never have any issues with the game , my machine or anything else that could possibly go wrong, but i know that things can go sideways real fast and for not a whole lot of reason.

I mean, comon, im running an ati card i know stupid issues.

either way i always suggest using a DCU to beginner mission runners, when they know what they are doing they can make their own choices concerning DCU and their own situation.

(this onetime a corpmate had a child emergency and i was ~3 jumps away, he fleeted me before he went afk but couldnt leave the mission area because of scrams, I got to him while he was in hull, without the DCU he wouldnt have survived.

I got many of those kinds of stories)

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#28 - 2013-02-07 01:49:06 UTC
One setup where you emphatically do not want a DC-II is passive shield tanking. Another Shield Power Relay will improve your shield tank much more than a damage control will, and I think that even a Power Diagnostic II will provide a bigger benefit (as well as using less CPU, adding significant PG, and giving back some of the cap recharge that the SPRs steal). Sure, you lose hull EHP, but a passive tanker should be getting out of there as soon as it can't maintain 25% shields, so you shouldn't need hull EHP anyway.

In fact, you can probably do better than a DC-II on most shield PvE ships (incursion or mission running). If your shield tank can hold without the DC-II (and it should), then another weapon upgrade is probably a better choice. The exceptions, IMO, are high-end incursions (where you are at risk of being alpha-ed) or low/null sec ops (where it is there to buy more time for your allies to rescue you in case of a gank).

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?
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