EVE General Discussion

I like this solution.

It would solve the "hiding" problem of long term players exploiting NPC corp mechanics, while still providing new players that entry path to explore and understand the game a bit before they start getting picked on.

It would even allow people who have made NPC their community to continue to do so if they valued that community above the restrictions.

People here make the naive mistake of believing that removing PvP evasion chances will somehow force / "entice" (via penalites) players to adapt and do it.

It has not worked for low sec, it's terrible game design to force or penalize players in subs based MMOs. I've played a number of MMOS both imposing "no retreat", "no escape", "penalties" or multiple of them at the same time and they ALL spectacularly failed.

People who don't want to fight, won't. Period. You can make them sit in a station, you can make them disband a corp, stay in NPC corp, form 1 men corps, join stuff like decshield and so on. But in the end they think: "I am paying for a game, who are you to force me to have no fun and be slaugthered, in a game where being spawn camped has also harsh consequences".
This makes those players believe they are entitled to decide (because they pay a sub) whether they accept a fight or not. And they WELL know that if someone in EvE attacks you is because they prepared super-mega extra overhelming odds anyway.

So, have fun nerfing this and that, in the end you'll just get station sitters and ultimately quitters. Like in every single PvP MMO that attempted this route.

I'm amazed at how somebody can find an issue in this at all.

For god's sake, why do you hate haulers so much? Where did they touch you? If they want to haul, leave them hauling or suicide gank them. I see no frigging reason for you to be entitled to pay a laughable fee and be allowed to shoot them all. Hell, even the name of it goes against your reasoning. People figthing are at war. A genocide isn't a war.

EVE is like that? Well, flashing news for you, IT ISN'T, otherwise you would have no reason to complain 23/7.

Well it would solve something, it would stop people "hiding" with impunity in NPC corps. I like you don't think people will find it that easy to identify the logistics people and war dec them but at least it would be possible where as today it is impossible and Eve players can be very ingenious.

I can't see many lost subs btw. The new players that actually need the NPC corps protection to ease into the game aren't the types who need to use freighters, transports and T2 ships. These things in the main take time to train for. By the time you have trained them and were beginning to butt your head against the restrictions you would be about ready to spread your wings and leave an NPC corp.

You best argument against a nerf is why people expect to be able to interrupt the supply chain in hi-sec. Surely they still have the low-sec and null sec possibilities to cut-off their enemies logistics. Why is there a need at all to HAVE to do it in hi-sec under a war-dec?

I don't really mind tbh either way, as long as NPC corps aren't nerfed for what they are, a way of helping new players ease their way into the game - because that really will hurt long term memberships.



Have to point out how wrong you are. Seek out CCP's fanfest presentations from last year. Hi-sec dwellers are a very significant proportion of the game. People who mission a very heathly proportion of people that play the game. CCP would be absolutely mad to change the balance. And of course these are the very casual players who do pay for subscriptions money not ISK for plex.

If you have played many games you will know how few people truly want to risk what they have worked for in PvP. Which of course brings us back neatly to what quite a few supporters of NPC corp nerf really want - a whole bunch of easy targets they can't fail to blow up. God forbid people actually went to PvP against other people who were ready and well equipped, they might die. Better to rub out all the noobs and make them quit ........

What about my highsec wardec corp targets? Not every supply interdiction needs to be about a nullsec entity, after all.

The only reliable target in a hisec wardec is a POS. Everything else can change hands in seconds: characters can leave corp, ships can be traded, contracts can be exchanged.

If you are expecting wardecs to save you from the effort of suicide ganking, you are playing the wrong game. Go play WoT or something suitable for your play style.

Apparently suicide ganking is too hard for some people, since they want the ability to wardec individual characters in an NPC corp, thus removing the expense of a suicide gank fleet. Perhaps they think the individual might undock in an expensive loot piñata while wardecced? I don't understand the reasoning.

Maybe stop trying to force people to play your way and accept there's more ways to playing the game than yours? There are problems with the NPC corps, sure, but stamping your feet and trying to slap everyone in the face is about as much of a terrible answer as crying about it is. Either suck it up or figure out a method to fix the issues that isn't essentially a thinly veiled insult towards those who don't think like you. Frankly its why I'm reluctant to put a full solid idea forward on the subject, because figuring out a good middle ground is difficult and spitting in everyone's faces who is on the opposite side is disrespectful and insulting. I'm all for expanding kill rights, and finding ways to make them apply to couriers for opposing corps. I'm all for making it where there is no virtually risk free method to transfer goods, or at least ways to counteract such methods. I'm not for something stupid will essentially be used as a griefing tool first and foremost. I'm not fine with a selfish mechanism meant only for the sake of someone not being able to handle the rules of highsec because they don't like them.

I'm all for finding ways to improve of going after legitimate targets, but lets leave the people who simply have a different way of enjoying the game that aren't harming anyone out of it despite your best claims to otherwise, shall we?

But, you don't really comprehend do you... War is Hell. Typically throughout history, when it comes to Warfare there is at least 1 side that does not want to fight... but wasn't given the option. If I can get a group of cowards to huddle up in station for a week while I mine out the belts in their home system... I win! If I get them to Drop Corp, and it failscades..... I Win. If they EmoRageQuit over it.... Welcome to EvE Online... HTFU or go play another game.

There are Alliances that are powerful, and resilient in this game because of the practice of using neutral alts in NPC corps to maintain a supply line. You ultimately wear down an opponent thru attrition and cutting off resupply. That's why German U-Boats in WWI were sinking freighters left and right in the North Atlantic... they were interdicting resupply to Great Britain. If you are growing tired of that big Blue Donut in Nullsec, and are frustrated at the MoonGoo Monopoly, then you must also recognise that you MUST cut off the supply lines in order to weaken them. They Own a stand up fight, you will never have a large enough sub-cap fleet to come out of Highsec and defend against the Supercap Blob, so you have to be able to cut their logistics. That takes being able to Wardec those NPC assets. Yes there will be innocent people hurt... eggs get broken... collateral damage happens in War.

You don't need a wardec to blow up a freighter in hisec.

You don't need a wardec to blow up a freighter in lowsec.

You don't need a wardec to blow up a freighter in nullsec.

What you can do is remove mineral compression, so more freighters are required, increasing the opportunity to find a target. You can alter the balance of industry so that it becomes (economically) viable to do some industry in nullsec, so then the process of interrupting logistics of nullsec empires becomes something you do in nullsec.

When it comes to nullsec logistics, allowing wardecs against NPC corps is the least productive use of developer time, and it certainly won't achieve what you expect it will.

PS: this will also impact "force projection" since maintaining ammunition supplies to active fleets will become important. No longer will you be able to sit in space for three hours shooting things: you will need to resupply every half hour or so (and also no more indestructible laser crystals). PvPers of all persuasions will need industrial and logistics support. It will be a grand new age of PvP where targets are easy to find because the industrialists have to fly through lowsec to supply the fighting forces!

Or maybe PvP will die because people can't venture too far from the station with their ammo supply?