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Where's Red Frog an Push on this nerf NPC thing?
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HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#61 - 2013-02-04 21:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:

Many a dev have stated in previous post that ganking somone in highsec was not designed for profit. Why do you guys keep forgeting that?
Any ship is profitable to gank if it has expensive modules in it and no tank modules of any kind fitted. And yes that's how it is designed - otherwise loot wouldn't drop on kills. What you and your kind seem to have done is taken that system and expanded it to some sort of interpretation of EVE as a PvP-optional game where you are entitled to failfit your ships.

Quote:
There is this place called null-sec. There people train and fit for real pvp. The problem is gankers dont want this because those people might shoot back and they could die to somone besides concord.
I've heard of it.



Just quoting the DEV be glad to dig it out for you and post the link if you want so you can argue with them over design.
HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#62 - 2013-02-04 21:41:54 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i heard nullsec is safer then highsec and highseccers belief that highsec is meant to be the safest of places, so really removing CONCORD is logical


Not safer per say, Just easier to tell friend from foe.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2013-02-04 21:45:15 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
Just quoting the DEV be glad to dig it out for you and post the link if you want so you can argue with them over design.
Please do so.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#64 - 2013-02-04 21:55:30 UTC
ITT: A solution looking for a problem.

Mr Epeen Cool
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-02-04 22:17:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
But the "cost" a veteran player pays for the awesome benefit of protection from war should be higher

Why?

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#66 - 2013-02-04 22:27:52 UTC
This Thread is not Dialogue, that's for sure.

GD has become so ludicrous it's just not worth it. More issue specific forums have much better formed proposals and answers.

Do we even really need GD ? Perhaps it should be only Dev Blog and Announcement oriented with comments allowed.

Sorry, but after 3 years of the same it's just seriously old. REAL old.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#67 - 2013-02-04 22:29:22 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
This Thread is not Dialogue, that's for sure.

GD has become so ludicrous it's just not worth it. More issue specific forums have much better formed proposals and answers.

Do we even really need GD ? Perhaps it should be only Dev Blog and Announcement oriented with comments allowed.

Sorry, but after 3 years of the same it's just seriously old. REAL old.


Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Generally these arguments end with posters like you crying and ISDs rushing to save the thread.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#68 - 2013-02-04 22:32:15 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
This Thread is not Dialogue, that's for sure.

GD has become so ludicrous it's just not worth it. More issue specific forums have much better formed proposals and answers.

Do we even really need GD ? Perhaps it should be only Dev Blog and Announcement oriented with comments allowed.

Sorry, but after 3 years of the same it's just seriously old. REAL old.


Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Generally these arguments end with posters like you crying and ISDs rushing to save the thread.




Thanks for spreading the word in duplicate. Really appreciated.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2013-02-04 22:34:17 UTC
Indeed it is
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#70 - 2013-02-04 22:37:12 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
This Thread is not Dialogue, that's for sure.

GD has become so ludicrous it's just not worth it. More issue specific forums have much better formed proposals and answers.

Do we even really need GD ? Perhaps it should be only Dev Blog and Announcement oriented with comments allowed.

Sorry, but after 3 years of the same it's just seriously old. REAL old.

Every now and again, some useful gem of a thread pops up. Usually just as I'm about to ragequit GD for good.
Damn them!

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Kalle Demos
Ironic Corp Name
#71 - 2013-02-04 22:40:58 UTC
SOLUTION!!

The problem really here is elite pvpers seem to want to attack those who dont want to attack back. CCP should develop a combat score for a corp, whenever a corp decs a pure carebear corp, the aggressors rank goes down, whenever they dec a PvP corp their rank goes up, this rank is measured by PvP kills NOT PvE kills.

This way 98% of elite pvpers who jerk off on their killboard stats, will be ranked based on 'actual' pvp and not "look at me mam, im punching a kitten" pvp.

In short what you will see is all these wardec / NPC threads dead because no one will want to be part of a corp with a terrible PvP rank, careless of what they kill, baring in my recognition is important to most internet spaceship nerds

They should also put a ticker on those who aggress, if they dock after they aggress, this ticker goes up, it will save people warping to these losers in local.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#72 - 2013-02-04 22:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Kalle Demos wrote:

In short what you will see is all these wardec / NPC threads dead because no one will want to be part of a corp with a terrible PvP rank, careless of what they kill, baring in my recognition is important to most internet spaceship nerds

You're joking, right? This is GD - Whinging and whining will never go out of style. They'll just find something new to kvetch about - probably about the new system that prevents them from getting points for kitten-punching.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-02-04 22:48:48 UTC
Kalle Demos wrote:
SOLUTION!!

The problem really here is elite pvpers seem to want to attack those who dont want to attack back. CCP should develop a combat score for a corp, whenever a corp decs a pure carebear corp, the aggressors rank goes down, whenever they dec a PvP corp their rank goes up, this rank is measured by PvP kills NOT PvE kills.

This way 98% of elite pvpers who jerk off on their killboard stats, will be ranked based on 'actual' pvp and not "look at me mam, im punching a kitten" pvp.

In short what you will see is all these wardec / NPC threads dead because no one will want to be part of a corp with a terrible PvP rank, careless of what they kill, baring in my recognition is important to most internet spaceship nerds

They should also put a ticker on those who aggress, if they dock after they aggress, this ticker goes up, it will save people warping to these losers in local.


See, it really isn't just that. That's the kind of thing that makes me disagree with most people's points on these subjects though, yeah. I mean, I see no problem in people keeping out of wardecs. A lot of them just seem meant to pick on the weak targets and get away with being pirates safely in high sec. I do however see why people would not want couriers to supply corps they have decced unhindered. Suddenly that supply you're trying to deny them to leave them weak is still getting through. There is no attrition of any sort and ultimately, very little tangible effect. Its a system that can use some work, just that work shouldn't involve a sledgehammer.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2013-02-04 22:48:58 UTC
this already exists its called battleclinic
Kalle Demos
Ironic Corp Name
#75 - 2013-02-04 23:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalle Demos
Fine, just make the market only available in low sec, this means hi sec people can continue life without being griefed (I mean what would be the point, they obviously dont want to PvP) BUT will have to one way or another make arrangements, either by joining a corp or making a deal

This encourages inter trade, more drama, more group work, more action

Now as a MASSIVE carebear I wouldnt mind this, I would likely resub all my accounts too.

Ofc freighters will need to be buffed

I should mention this makes trading more global and not "Jita, Amarr etc", it makes low sec trading finally possible and the biggest thing of all, it makes ALL the wannabe dumb **** pirates leave the game

Trade wouldnt be about 0.01 under cutting, something 100 mil one place could be 200 mil another, due to its risk and 0.0 alliances will finally have to defend their moon goo BUT at the same time remove risk free freedom from hi sec
Heywood Djiblomi
Doomheim
#76 - 2013-02-04 23:48:06 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i heard nullsec is safer then highsec and highseccers belief that highsec is meant to be the safest of places, so really removing CONCORD is logical


Not safer per say, Just easier to tell friend from foe.


That qualifies as safer in most rational peoples' minds.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2013-02-04 23:52:23 UTC
yeah stop being irrational holly and help make highsec safer
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2013-02-05 00:06:59 UTC
Vexen Lyre wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
While I've heard great things about them, I admit, I can see where there'd be a problem with an untouchable hauling group being paid to help keep a wardecced corp supplied. With their methods they are completely invincible as a logistics group.


since everyone shares this advantage it isn't really an issue though, is it?

now im NOT aggreeing with him, im more or less against nerfing npc-corps (even if null-sec uses them to haul tech, lowsec uses them to get their ships from jita, and highsec uses them to avoid wardecs).

but by your logic, if there was an exploit that allowed invulnerability, it isnt unfair because everyoen could do it.

just saying. your reasoning was weak/flawed.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#79 - 2013-02-05 00:32:58 UTC
Kalle Demos wrote:
SOLUTION!!

The problem really here is elite pvpers seem to want to attack those who dont want to attack back. CCP should develop a combat score for a corp, whenever a corp decs a pure carebear corp, the aggressors rank goes down, whenever they dec a PvP corp their rank goes up, this rank is measured by PvP kills NOT PvE kills.

This way 98% of elite pvpers who jerk off on their killboard stats, will be ranked based on 'actual' pvp and not "look at me mam, im punching a kitten" pvp.

In short what you will see is all these wardec / NPC threads dead because no one will want to be part of a corp with a terrible PvP rank, careless of what they kill, baring in my recognition is important to most internet spaceship nerds

They should also put a ticker on those who aggress, if they dock after they aggress, this ticker goes up, it will save people warping to these losers in local.


You realize this would just make things worse, as many of the highsec griefer corps LOVE having reputations for griefing helpless carebears, right?

Additionally, EVE is a PVP game, and the only actions you can take that are not PVP are ship spinning and chatting with your corp mates(the latter may be pvp too, depending on your corp) so EVERYONE in game is engaged in PVP at all times, whether they like it or not.

Ship v Ship PVP should not be something you can hide from either, tbh, but you can always refrain from undocking.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#80 - 2013-02-05 00:49:56 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
Again, a solution is to disallow the accepting of courier contracts by players in NPC corps. To freighter contracts, freighter pilots would have to be in player run corps.


I would prefer to see restrictions on ships you can undock. if you are in an NPC corp you live with trial account restrictions: no industrials, no freighters, no T2 ships.

Wardecs will still be trivially bypassed: receive a wardec, transfer the freighter to that other character in the non-wardec corp. it is cheaper to maintain multiple holding characters than to maintain multiple wardecs.

So in the end the restriction on what ships an NPC corp capsuleer can fly has no effect. So the NPC corp nerf only lost subscriptions and had no impact.

What about your restriction on courier contracts? Trivially bypassed: inacceptnthe contract with my wardecced -10 capsuleer, station trade the courier contract item to my NPC alt flying the freighter, then pod my way over to the destination, swap back, complete contract.

People complaining about NPC corps being immune to wardecs are simply looking for targets too stupid to turtle or shoot back.

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