These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Where's Red Frog an Push on this nerf NPC thing?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
#1 - 2013-02-04 14:29:23 UTC
A lot of threads of late on nerfing NPC Corps. Why? Well, after all the arguemnts for it are dismissed (and they usually are becuase their invalid) two things remain:

1. Wardec. War dec who? miners? nope that never comes up, Traders? nope, be usuless anyways since they don't undock. Pirates/Gankers? nada, they are the ones wanting the nerf. So wardec who? That brings us to ...

2) Haulers. They want to wardec haulers. hmm, that would mean, what they want is to Wardec Red Frog and Push, but that's useless since the only ones in those allaince are the contract brokers. So, in the end, what they want is to attack freighters, particualry those in corps like Red Frog and Push, in Hi-Sec with no recourse from Concord.

They make claims that NPC players have all the rewards with no risk, but they want CCP to give them just that. Give frieght gankers all the reward from attacking freighters in Hi-Sec with none of the risk of being Concorded. The number of hauler alts in NPC Corps is infinently small, but they wish to punish the whole lot over a very small number of players.

since this is neraly all about them, where's Red Frog and Push on this issue. It's you're boats they want.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#2 - 2013-02-04 14:32:37 UTC
I agree easy solution is to remove Concord..
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-02-04 14:34:20 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
I agree easy solution is to remove Concord..


Just leave hi-sec...

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#4 - 2013-02-04 14:40:19 UTC
Reuben Johnson wrote:
(wrote some stuff ), where's Red Frog and Push on this issue. It's you're boats they want.


They're a bunch of pretty intelligent folks who find they have no need to resort to these GD Forums for issues which are not real.

I have used Red Frog Freight on more than one occasion and as far as I am concerned, they have their act together, are totally reliable and I highly recommend them.

o7

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-02-04 14:42:06 UTC
looking at my last couple of mineral contracts they were picked up by player corp characters.

the issue is about visibility. if you're oddjobbing contracts then you're unlikely to get your corp wardecced. however if there were a constant stream of red frog freighters toing andf froing from jita then they would get wardecced because it's quite obviously an operation.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-02-04 14:43:50 UTC
Reuben Johnson wrote:
It's you're boats they want.


Roll

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Whitehound
#7 - 2013-02-04 14:51:31 UTC
RedFrog Freight and Push Industries have cow catchers mounted to their trucks so they can thunder unhindered over troll bridges.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-04 14:55:11 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
Reuben Johnson wrote:
(wrote some stuff ), where's Red Frog and Push on this issue. It's you're boats they want.


They're a bunch of pretty intelligent folks who find they have no need to resort to these GD Forums for issues which are not real.

I have used Red Frog Freight on more than one occasion and as far as I am concerned, they have their act together, are totally reliable and I highly recommend them.

o7



While I've heard great things about them, I admit, I can see where there'd be a problem with an untouchable hauling group being paid to help keep a wardecced corp supplied. With their methods they are completely invincible as a logistics group.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-02-04 14:58:33 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
While I've heard great things about them, I admit, I can see where there'd be a problem with an untouchable hauling group being paid to help keep a wardecced corp supplied. With their methods they are completely invincible as a logistics group.


since everyone shares this advantage it isn't really an issue though, is it?

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#10 - 2013-02-04 14:59:25 UTC
... they want to wardec "people who use NPC corps to avoid wardecs". It's not limited to a career. It was never limited to a career. It is limited to those who hide in NPC corps. It alwasy has been limited to those who hide in NPC corps. Those who hide in NPC corps includes anyone in an NPC corp, regardless of reason. Those who hide in NPC corps aren't necessarily intentionally "hiding" but are necessarily exempt from the risk of wardec, hence the terminology. So it is limited to those who are in NPC corp, which is necessarily a form of "hiding", whether intentional or otherwise. They want to wardec people who are hiding in NPC corps. It is not limited to a career because people in NPC corps have many careers, and are not even necessarily limited to one career. So it will include haulers, missioners, post-wardec corpies, miners, scammers, traders, pvpers, drug dealers, smacktalkers, pedophiles, Matari slaves, fish... wait, which game are you playing?

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-02-04 15:03:44 UTC
it's not an NPC corp issue though, red frog could subcontract to player corp characters if they wanted. you can't see the connections of a private contract so you have no way of telling whose freight is whose.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#12 - 2013-02-04 15:13:26 UTC
Vexen Lyre wrote:
it's not an NPC corp issue though, red frog could subcontract to player corp characters if they wanted. you can't see the connections of a private contract so you have no way of telling whose freight is whose.


They almost always do.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-02-04 15:20:21 UTC
Vexen Lyre wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
While I've heard great things about them, I admit, I can see where there'd be a problem with an untouchable hauling group being paid to help keep a wardecced corp supplied. With their methods they are completely invincible as a logistics group.


since everyone shares this advantage it isn't really an issue though, is it?


Well, I can see it being a big reason why cutting off supplies is flat out impossible, but is that solvable? Hard to say.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#14 - 2013-02-04 15:21:02 UTC
Damn, you guys blood thirsty.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-02-04 15:21:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Vexen Lyre
Sentient Blade wrote:
Vexen Lyre wrote:
it's not an NPC corp issue though, red frog could subcontract to player corp characters if they wanted. you can't see the connections of a private contract so you have no way of telling whose freight is whose.


They almost always do.


possibly because there's no advantage of putting a character through 8m of extra training to fly a freighter.

perhaps making capital ships corporate assets is the solution, if you think there's a problem. perhaps having different tiers of corporation with different levels of technology access and minimum member counts is also a solution.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-02-04 15:33:20 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Vexen Lyre wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
While I've heard great things about them, I admit, I can see where there'd be a problem with an untouchable hauling group being paid to help keep a wardecced corp supplied. With their methods they are completely invincible as a logistics group.


since everyone shares this advantage it isn't really an issue though, is it?


Well, I can see it being a big reason why cutting off supplies is flat out impossible, but is that solvable? Hard to say.


I don't think so, unless the corp you're trying to put under siege thinks jita is the only place to shop.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#17 - 2013-02-04 16:32:39 UTC
Vexen Lyre wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
Vexen Lyre wrote:
it's not an NPC corp issue though, red frog could subcontract to player corp characters if they wanted. you can't see the connections of a private contract so you have no way of telling whose freight is whose.


They almost always do.


possibly because there's no advantage of putting a character through 8m of extra training to fly a freighter.

perhaps making capital ships corporate assets is the solution, if you think there's a problem. perhaps having different tiers of corporation with different levels of technology access and minimum member counts is also a solution.


I'm not sure what your point is here, but it's a little over 1m SP to fly a freighter, not 8m. If there was no advantage in training this, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't see multiple freighters on the gates down the uedama pipe.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#18 - 2013-02-04 16:47:44 UTC
Reuben Johnson wrote:
A lot of threads of late on nerfing NPC Corps. Why? Well, after all the arguemnts for it are dismissed (and they usually are becuase their invalid) two things remain:

1. Wardec. War dec who? miners? nope that never comes up, Traders? nope, be usuless anyways since they don't undock. Pirates/Gankers? nada, they are the ones wanting the nerf. So wardec who? That brings us to ...

2) Haulers. They want to wardec haulers. hmm, that would mean, what they want is to Wardec Red Frog and Push, but that's useless since the only ones in those allaince are the contract brokers. So, in the end, what they want is to attack freighters, particualry those in corps like Red Frog and Push, in Hi-Sec with no recourse from Concord.

They make claims that NPC players have all the rewards with no risk, but they want CCP to give them just that. Give frieght gankers all the reward from attacking freighters in Hi-Sec with none of the risk of being Concorded. The number of hauler alts in NPC Corps is infinently small, but they wish to punish the whole lot over a very small number of players.

since this is neraly all about them, where's Red Frog and Push on this issue. It's you're boats they want.


This is an example of a person with a material interest (you see the poster is in an npc corp) dismissing an idea by making up false motivations for other people.

People like this NEED to believe in some kind of nefarious conspiracy or agenda, because they can't or won't understand that other people have philosophically different opinions from theirs.

I, personally want something done about npc corps. Not because I think people should be pushed out of them (I do not, i have a couple toons in npc corps to avoid wardecs while incursion running), or that npc corps should be wardeccable (they shouldn't). But the "cost" a veteran player pays for the awesome benefit of protection from war should be higher (and I am personally willing to pay that price).

I have nothing to gain materially from an adjustment of the npc corp scheme (i'm not a ganker, i don't even really pvp that much), other than the philosophical satisfaction that the game I play would have improved internal constancy.

I wish people like the OP would somehow come to understand that sometimes, things that are good for the game (in this case, a player driven game NOT having an npc based safe haven for veteran players) might not be the same as things that are good for their own narrow personal interests.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-02-04 17:03:12 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
I'm not sure what your point is here, but it's a little over 1m SP to fly a freighter, not 8m. If there was no advantage in training this, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't see multiple freighters on the gates down the uedama pipe.


sorry that wasn't clear, i meant 8 minutes training corporate management to create a player corporation for the freighter alt which gives no advantage over an NPC alt and can be disbanded in the event of a wardec.

but ,getting to the nub of why there isn't a problem with NPC hauling alts, it is simply because literally anyone can pick up a public courier contract and haul your enemies stuff into the station they operate out of.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#20 - 2013-02-04 18:40:35 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
RedFrog Freight and Push Industries have cow catchers mounted to their trucks so they can thunder unhindered over troll bridges.


Dont bring my corp into this....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
123Next pageLast page