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Unplug Skillbooks
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Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-02-04 19:51:19 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

2 Thoughts:

1.) The Supercap losing their skill thing is not relevant... People might "delete" the skill on a hacked account... and they are far more likely to run off with the supercap, or self destruct it rather than delete the skill. Furthermore, since we are already doing a skill delete check, just make it so you have to be in a capsule to delete a skill....

2.) This idea seems well thought out, with decent "abuse" prevention mechanics.... It has been posted before (in Assembly Hall) in a very similar fashion... My biggest concern is the amount of "dev time" required to implement this feature. The feature really adds little to the game, might increase the number of petitions (I accidently deleted my Skill, please give it back), and probably will result in more destructive "hacks". If this is a quickly-implemented feature to make you happy, I'm ok with it... but it probably isn't... and I'd personally prefer the Dev's spend their time working on other features...


That's fair enough honestly. What the Dev's spend time on really comes down to them. Personally I would love it, it's mainly one of those "quality of life" improvements. Though I'm sure they have spent more time on things that have added little to the game with long development time (CQ? :P)

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-02-04 19:56:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Sorry, the problem is not only that this is a Idea that goes against the choice-consequence idea that is the base of the game, but also to add this feature to the game CCP would have to waste some man hours of the eve developers, and also it would be wasting hard drive of every eve player.

Also this feature would have a big chance to mess up the skill tree, removing pre-requisites of other skills... So it would need a massive amount of code just to ensure that this don't happen..

I just think that this change don't worth the effort... eve have some bigger problems at the moment...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-02-04 19:56:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Khaine
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Sasha Khaine wrote:

You clearly didn't read the effects that would stop such an act from happening. Also they can demand all they like but they knew it was permanent, if they felt like it could have been buffed in the future they would have kept the skills. You are just nit picking now and really it's rather pathetic.


Danika Princip is a known dickhead with delusions of Grand Troll Master. That he responded as he did means your idea has merit.


Whilst I appreciate the response, I think you should edit your post (for the sake of my thread) as there is no need to call names. Danika eventually posted some valid arguments and I've responded to them, let's leave it at that and move on.

Bienator II wrote:
well yes. why not.

But in all seriousness. Why would you ever do that? What is the problem with mining 2 on your combat char. Why would it sell less or hurt you in any way? Eve is one of the few games where you can't skill anything wrong, its not like mining 2 would block the titan skillbook. Even as hardcore roleplay person you can probably figure out a reason why john j. spaceship rambo trained mining in his youth.


Am I silly for getting a little annoyed over something trivial? Perhaps, but I just like things to be neat, structured and organised in a way I want them to be.

I understand that there is nothing wrong with having mining 2 there but to me it's an eye sore on my other wise clean character sheet that I would rather see gone.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-02-04 20:00:15 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Sorry, the problem is not only that this is a Idea that goes against the choice-consequence idea that is the base of the game but also to add this feature to the game you would have to waste some man hours of the eve developers, and also it would be wasting hard drive of every eve player.

I just think that this change don't worth the effort... eve have some bigger problems at the moment...


Was it my choice to having mining 2 on my character when I started? No, in fact if I was given the option to have mining 2 or not when I started the game I would have chosen no and been happy with my choice.

What you consider to be wasted man hours others may consider to be of put to good use. I don't really feel like the hard-drive thing is a serious issue so I won't comment on it. Though no doubt there are many players out there that think many aspects of EVE are wasting hard drive space that they would happily see go.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-02-04 20:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Khaine
Alx Warlord wrote:
Sorry, the problem is not only that this is a Idea that goes against the choice-consequence idea that is the base of the game, but also to add this feature to the game CCP would have to waste some man hours of the eve developers, and also it would be wasting hard drive of every eve player.

Also this feature would have a big chance to mess up the skill tree, removing pre-requisites of other skills... So it would need a massive amount of code just to ensure that this don't happen..

I just think that this change don't worth the effort... eve have some bigger problems at the moment...


To reflect your post edit, I would strongly suggest that you read my OP a little closer. I clearly state in the last bulletin point that you can't delete pre-requisite skills without first deleting the progressive skill.

Edit: Here I have pulled it out just for you Lol

Sasha Khaine wrote:


  • You can't delete skills that are prerequisites to other skills. E.g You can't delete spaceship command without first deleting advanced spaceship command.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-02-04 20:32:37 UTC
Sasha Khaine wrote:


  • You can't delete skills that are prerequisites to other skills. E.g You can't delete spaceship command without first deleting advanced spaceship command.



This would cost allot to CCP to do, and would add no game value at all. Simply CCP will not do it. There is no point trying to convince us that this is needed.

Just say one in-game positive aspect of your idea! do you get any sort of advantage on haven 1 less skill???

Although, If you ask CCP to add some way to customize the shown skills, or make something more useful with the certificates, more people would stay at your side.

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#27 - 2013-02-04 20:35:07 UTC
TheSkeptic wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Sasha Khaine wrote:


What do you think?


So an elaborate game mechanic designed and implemented because:

A) You made a poor choice or poor choices
B) You have self-diagnosed OCD (not a personal attack just quoting you).

I will answer your question with one word:

No.

Thank you.

========

To your credit, I am impressed you didn't ask for SP reimbursement.

Thank you!!


Why don't you go troll your own horrifically terrible thread about NPC corps instead.

tbh, this suggestion isn't bad. It doesn't ask for reimbursement of SP or time... just that the skills can be removed Almost like removing an implant.


This wasn't a troll. The poster asked for my opinion. My opinion is the opposite of the original post. These things happen.

Thank you.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#28 - 2013-02-04 20:37:02 UTC
Sasha Khaine wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Sasha Khaine wrote:


What do you think?


So an elaborate game mechanic designed and implemented because:

A) You made a poor choice or poor choices
B) You have self-diagnosed OCD (not a personal attack just quoting you).

I will answer your question with one word:

No.

Thank you.

========

To your credit, I am impressed you didn't ask for SP reimbursement.

Thank you!!


Why do you care if I lose SP?

Edit: Also it's not really "elaborate" as you say, just thorough and effective.
Edit2: Also I didn't make any poor choices, CCP gave me industry 2 by default and accidentally injecting lab op was due to my mouse tracking going spazzy for unknown reasons.


Edit: The "poor choice" was at character creation. You picked the wrong school.
Edit2: Deal with it.

And, yes, your suggestion is this elaborate method to remove something that doesn't need to be removed. When you can simply just ignore the mistakes (fine, or mis-clicks) you made.

Thank you.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-02-04 20:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
It's unnecessary, so no.

Let me also clarify - it's not unnecessary the way new ship models are unnecessary or the way that new sky boxes are unnecessary. It's unecessary in that it fails to do any of the following three things:


  • Add value to the game as a whole, either by adding content, making content more immersive, or improving the look and feel of the game to any significant degree.
  • Improve game play or game balance.
  • Affect a substantial number of players in any positive manner. Regardless of the number of players that ever use this feature, the final effect is, at best neutral in that the only individual that cares about it is the player actually doing it.


Quite frankly, it's a waste of development time which could be spent on any number of other things, including ship rebalancing, adding new content, or fixing the broken ass sovereignty system.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#30 - 2013-02-04 20:40:56 UTC
I would like to point out at this time that what you are asking for is already implemented into the game.

You have two options at this point in time that CCP has already spent hours of coding on to allow you the Choice™ to fix the mistakes or mis-clicks you made:

Choice™ #1: Biomass
Choice™ #2: Don't update your clone; engage in PVP until that skill is randomly selected as one of the skills to be removed through natural loss of SP.

Now it is simply up to you. Just like the original inclusion of the skills you do not wish to have.

Thank you.
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-02-04 21:00:58 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Sasha Khaine wrote:


  • You can't delete skills that are prerequisites to other skills. E.g You can't delete spaceship command without first deleting advanced spaceship command.



This would cost allot to CCP to do, and would add no game value at all. Simply CCP will not do it. There is no point trying to convince us that this is needed.

Just say one in-game positive aspect of your idea! do you get any sort of advantage on haven 1 less skill???

Although, If you ask CCP to add some way to customize the shown skills, or make something more useful with the certificates, more people would stay at your side.


I don't know of your knowledge of the cost of running a game development studio, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you don't know much regarding costs.

The positive aspect is it will give players the option to remove skills they no longer wanted. Similar to how implants can be removed.

Perhaps then for an alternate idea would be as to how steam displays their game list. Allowing you to display only installed items to clear clutter from your view. Taking this in to effect they could make it so you could hide individual skill levels from view.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-02-04 21:04:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Khaine
Sol Weinstein wrote:

Edit: The "poor choice" was at character creation. You picked the wrong school.
Edit2: Deal with it.

And, yes, your suggestion is this elaborate method to remove something that doesn't need to be removed. When you can simply just ignore the mistakes (fine, or mis-clicks) you made.

Thank you.


1. I picked the imperial academy and as far as I'm aware, that was the correct choice as it's a combat school.
2. I'm trying to, by making this thread I'm giving CCP the idea & inspiration to "deal with it" indeed.

You ask me to ignore it and deal with it at the same time, which is it? I can't deal with it by ignoring it and by ignoring it the problem still stands. So here I am dealing with it, thank you for the bumps.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-02-04 21:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Khaine
De'Veldrin wrote:
It's unnecessary, so no.

Let me also clarify - it's not unnecessary the way new ship models are unnecessary or the way that new sky boxes are unnecessary. It's unecessary in that it fails to do any of the following three things:


  • Add value to the game as a whole, either by adding content, making content more immersive, or improving the look and feel of the game to any significant degree.
  • Improve game play or game balance.
  • Affect a substantial number of players in any positive manner. Regardless of the number of players that ever use this feature, the final effect is, at best neutral in that the only individual that cares about it is the player actually doing it.


Quite frankly, it's a waste of development time which could be spent on any number of other things, including ship rebalancing, adding new content, or fixing the broken ass sovereignty system.


It would add value to my gaming experience because It would be one less annoyance/s in my character sheet. Again, what you perceive as a waste of development time, what I see as a waste of development time and what CCP themselves see as a waste of development time are entirely different things. Please do not speak on behalf of CCP when you are not affiliated with their time management whatsoever.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#34 - 2013-02-04 21:16:05 UTC
Sasha Khaine wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
It's unnecessary, so no.

Let me also clarify - it's not unnecessary the way new ship models are unnecessary or the way that new sky boxes are unnecessary. It's unecessary in that it fails to do any of the following three things:


  • Add value to the game as a whole, either by adding content, making content more immersive, or improving the look and feel of the game to any significant degree.
  • Improve game play or game balance.
  • Affect a substantial number of players in any positive manner. Regardless of the number of players that ever use this feature, the final effect is, at best neutral in that the only individual that cares about it is the player actually doing it.


Quite frankly, it's a waste of development time which could be spent on any number of other things, including ship rebalancing, adding new content, or fixing the broken ass sovereignty system.


It would add value to my gaming experience because It would be one less annoyance/s in my character sheet. Again, what you perceive as a waste of development time, what I see as a waste of development time and what CCP themselves see as a waste of development time are entirely different things. Please do not speak on behalf of CCP when you are not affiliated with their time management whatsoever.

It is a waste of time because it of those reasons you quoted, at best it's something for a single person, or small minority's benefit especially considering that time could be used for something actually productive.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-02-04 21:19:30 UTC
Sasha Khaine wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
It's unnecessary, so no.

Let me also clarify - it's not unnecessary the way new ship models are unnecessary or the way that new sky boxes are unnecessary. It's unecessary in that it fails to do any of the following three things:


  • Add value to the game as a whole, either by adding content, making content more immersive, or improving the look and feel of the game to any significant degree.
  • Improve game play or game balance.
  • Affect a substantial number of players in any positive manner. Regardless of the number of players that ever use this feature, the final effect is, at best neutral in that the only individual that cares about it is the player actually doing it.


Quite frankly, it's a waste of development time which could be spent on any number of other things, including ship rebalancing, adding new content, or fixing the broken ass sovereignty system.


It would add value to my gaming experience because It would be one less annoyance/s in my character sheet. Again, what you perceive as a waste of development time, what I see as a waste of development time and what CCP themselves see as a waste of development time are entirely different things. Please do not speak on behalf of CCP when you are not affiliated with their time management whatsoever.


I was posting my opinion - I fail to see anywhere in my post where I claimed to be speaking on behalf of CCP. But since you went ahead and went full ******:

I don't really give a crap about your OCD and whatever petty annoyances you may have with your character sheet. Of all the problems this game has, YOU being unhappy with YOUR character sheet doesn't even rate on my give-a-****-o-meter.

Also, next time you ask for a carefully thought out, well constructed argument, don't be so pissy when you get one.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-02-04 21:20:24 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
It is a waste of time because it of those reasons you quoted, at best it's something for a single person, or small minority's benefit especially considering that time could be used for something actually productive.


But it's not because it's cleaning up my character sheet, making it more organised. I think you might be surprised as to how many people migth use this to remove that "pesky" skill that has been sitting at level 1 for years of time gathering dust.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#37 - 2013-02-04 21:26:32 UTC
Sasha Khaine wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
It is a waste of time because it of those reasons you quoted, at best it's something for a single person, or small minority's benefit especially considering that time could be used for something actually productive.


But it's not because it's cleaning up my character sheet, making it more organised. I think you might be surprised as to how many people migth use this to remove that "pesky" skill that has been sitting at level 1 for years of time gathering dust.

Like I said, true waste of time. It is simpler and more efficient for you to ignore it.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-02-04 21:27:03 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:

I was posting my opinion - I fail to see anywhere in my post where I claimed to be speaking on behalf of CCP. But since you went ahead and went full ******:

I don't really give a crap about your OCD and whatever petty annoyances you may have with your character sheet. Of all the problems this game has, YOU being unhappy with YOUR character sheet doesn't even rate on my give-a-****-o-meter.

Also, next time you ask for a carefully thought out, well constructed argument, don't be so pissy when you get one.


You said it was a waste of development time, of which I pointed out that a "waste of development time" is highly subjective as it differs from every individual and the only people it comes down to who gets to decide if it is indeed a waste of development time is CCP.

Now I suggest you calm down, I merely replied and pulled your card. That's fine, I don't really give a crap that you don't give a crap either but I appreciate the reply nonetheless and yes, It was well thought, but ultimately flawed.

The only one acting "pissy" is you yourself. Raging that you don't care and are acting like a child. I can see you are now trying to derail the thread by trying to get me to answer in a less than constructive way but don't worry I won't fall for that easily.

I welcome your opinion and that of others, just try stay calm and avoid profanity and calling names.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-02-04 21:30:36 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Like I said, true waste of time. It is simpler and more efficient for you to ignore it.


I don't believe ignoring something is dealing with the situation. But thank you for reiterating your point for a second time. I'd be happy to discuss anything else you may have to say!

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#40 - 2013-02-04 21:34:32 UTC
Sasha Khaine wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Like I said, true waste of time. It is simpler and more efficient for you to ignore it.


I don't believe ignoring something is dealing with the situation. But thank you for reiterating your point for a second time. I'd be happy to discuss anything else you may have to say!

I could see this being a legitimate problem if some kibd of penalty came with the skill, but since there isn't one, it's not an important issue.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--