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Unplug Skillbooks
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Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-02-04 09:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Khaine
Note: I'm getting a lot of "waste of development time" responses. I understand this isn't a crucial issue, nor one that should be taken in to action immediately. Rather a quality of life improvement that CCP could develop when they have some "spare" time. (if such thing exists over at CCP P)

I thought It would be great (for those of us who have OCD lol) to be able to remove skill books from our character. For example I have mining 2 that came with the character and laboratory operation 0 that I accidentally injected.

Making my 100% combat character actually 99.99% combat, grrr lol. I'm never going to use these skills and they are only taking up space making my character sheet less organised so here is what I propose.

Give us the ability to "unplug" skill books that have been injected. The following will occur when the skill book is removed:

  • All skill points will be removed from the character sheet with no record of it ever being there
  • The skill book itself will be permanently destroyed with no method of retrieval
  • The skill/s set for deletion will enter a stasis period of 1 week. At the end of that period you will have the option to go through with the deletion or cancel it.
  • This service will only be able to be used once a year, similar to a neural remap.
  • There will be a special password you must set in your account management page that must be entered prior to deleting the skill book.
  • If you wan't to learn the skill again you will have to buy it again and start at level 0 with 0 skill points.
  • You can't delete skills that are prerequisites to other skills. E.g You can't delete spaceship command without first deleting advanced spaceship command.


What do you think?

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#2 - 2013-02-04 10:10:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Sol Weinstein
Sasha Khaine wrote:


What do you think?


So an elaborate game mechanic designed and implemented because:

A) You made a poor choice or poor choices
B) You have self-diagnosed OCD (not a personal attack just quoting you).

I will answer your question with one word:

No.

Thank you.

========

To your credit, I am impressed you didn't ask for SP reimbursement.

Thank you!!
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-02-04 10:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Khaine
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Sasha Khaine wrote:


What do you think?


So an elaborate game mechanic designed and implemented because:

A) You made a poor choice or poor choices
B) You have self-diagnosed OCD (not a personal attack just quoting you).

I will answer your question with one word:

No.

Thank you.

========

To your credit, I am impressed you didn't ask for SP reimbursement.

Thank you!!


Why do you care if I lose SP?

Edit: Also it's not really "elaborate" as you say, just thorough and effective.
Edit2: Also I didn't make any poor choices, CCP gave me industry 2 by default and accidentally injecting lab op was due to my mouse tracking going spazzy for unknown reasons.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-02-04 11:22:59 UTC
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Sasha Khaine wrote:


What do you think?


So an elaborate game mechanic designed and implemented because:

A) You made a poor choice or poor choices
B) You have self-diagnosed OCD (not a personal attack just quoting you).

I will answer your question with one word:

No.

Thank you.

========

To your credit, I am impressed you didn't ask for SP reimbursement.

Thank you!!


Why don't you go troll your own horrifically terrible thread about NPC corps instead.

tbh, this suggestion isn't bad. It doesn't ask for reimbursement of SP or time... just that the skills can be removed Almost like removing an implant.

...

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2013-02-04 11:23:23 UTC
Why does it even matter?

Do you just want cheaper clones or something?



Learn to search, find the other threads about this, and go away.
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-02-04 12:14:20 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Why does it even matter?


It matters because I don't like seeing industry level 2 polluting my character sheet. I didn't even put it there to begin with. I like things tidy and organised that's why it matters. It might not matter to you but I'm sure other people feel the same way.

Danika Princip wrote:
Do you just want cheaper clones or something?


Because removing a skill with industry 2 and lab operation 0 will reduce the cost so much right?

Danika Princip wrote:
Learn to search, find the other threads about this, and go away.


Most other threads ask for an SP reimbursement and to get the skill book back. My idea doesn't. If you don't like it, move along mate. I'm sure there are many other threads awaiting your intelligent response.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Benjamin Artoriana
Porpoises with a Purpose
#7 - 2013-02-04 12:21:49 UTC
I like it. Unplugging means solely lost SP and time and NO reimbursement whatsoever. Just a cleanup a niched characters skill sheet and I would also include a fee of some sort.

However, I think that implementing such an option would need also need to have more than one limit in terms of how often one could do this. A one time thing to remove some skills and then similarly to Remapping attributes you would have to wait a year.

Something, something, don't be an idiot. Blah, blah, I love EVE and goats.

Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-02-04 12:29:01 UTC
Benjamin Artoriana wrote:
I like it. Unplugging means solely lost SP and time and NO reimbursement whatsoever. Just a cleanup a niched characters skill sheet and I would also include a fee of some sort.

However, I think that implementing such an option would need also need to have more than one limit in terms of how often one could do this. A one time thing to remove some skills and then similarly to Remapping attributes you would have to wait a year.


This is probably a good idea to make sure the system doesn't get abused. Or rather like deleting a character.

You select the skills you want removed, they will then enter a 24 hour stasis period (similar to biomass) where it gives you the time to think whether you would really like to delete the skills or not. Once the 24 hours have passed you can either cancel the decision or go ahead with it. Then you could add the the neural remap timer and allow only once per year.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-02-04 13:07:52 UTC
Sasha Khaine wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Why does it even matter?


It matters because I don't like seeing industry level 2 polluting my character sheet. I didn't even put it there to begin with. I like things tidy and organised that's why it matters. It might not matter to you but I'm sure other people feel the same way.

Danika Princip wrote:
Do you just want cheaper clones or something?


Because removing a skill with industry 2 and lab operation 0 will reduce the cost so much right?

Danika Princip wrote:
Learn to search, find the other threads about this, and go away.


Most other threads ask for an SP reimbursement and to get the skill book back. My idea doesn't. If you don't like it, move along mate. I'm sure there are many other threads awaiting your intelligent response.



It doesn't 'pollute' anything. It's a skill. I have bloody mining barges trained, and I haven't mined on this character in years, but you don't see me crying about skill removal.

YOU might only use it to take off default skills, but that doesn't mean everyone else will. It WILL be used to get cheaper clones. That or it'll be a thing people do with hacked accounts, as well as just stealing everything. On top of that, one round of buffs later and you'll have loads of people demanding their skills back.


If your response to anyone not liking your idea is to tell them to move on, you probably shouldn't be posting your idea in a discussion forum, should you.
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-02-04 13:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Khaine
Quote:
It doesn't 'pollute' anything. It's a skill. I have bloody mining barges trained, and I haven't mined on this character in years, but you don't see me crying about skill removal.

YOU might only use it to take off default skills, but that doesn't mean everyone else will. It WILL be used to get cheaper clones. That or it'll be a thing people do with hacked accounts, as well as just stealing everything. On top of that, one round of buffs later and you'll have loads of people demanding their skills back.

If your response to anyone not liking your idea is to tell them to move on, you probably shouldn't be posting your idea in a discussion forum, should you.


My response was to you, not everyone else. Don't make this about them, that's not very fair is it? I welcome disagreements, though I would at least like an intelligent response explaining why with rational thoughts behind them. Perhaps we can iron them out.

You however, clearly fail to see the reason and told me to go away. If you don't want skill removal then don't use it as you clearly think you might find use for the skills again in the future, that's the great thing about this idea. You don't have to use it but it's there for when you want to! Great hm?

Quote:
It WILL be used to get cheaper clones.


So what? They are losing SP which has taken them time to earn and all they are getting in return is a cheaper clone that would be the same price as if they hadn't trained the skill? They say common sense is so rare it's a super power these days. I think I'm going to have to agree with that saying.

Quote:
That or it'll be a thing people do with hacked accounts, as well as just stealing everything. On top of that, one round of buffs later and you'll have loads of people demanding their skills back.


You clearly didn't read the effects that would stop such an act from happening. Also they can demand all they like but they knew it was permanent, if they felt like it could have been buffed in the future they would have kept the skills. You are just nit picking now and really it's rather pathetic.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2013-02-04 15:14:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyt Thrace
I do like your thinking Sasha, but I have already gone through this subject. Had same thinking as you, so glad I am not the only one to think this way.

My thread can be found here, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192613&find=unread, but due to children trolling my thread & calling me names, the great wizards of the ISD deemed to lock my thread, because all it bought was hate & name calling.

You can also see that the same trolls of hate and name calling are doing the same thing in this thread.

Good luck with you post, I support the idea myself. I just wonder why people have to hate so much.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-02-04 15:30:08 UTC
Thanks Kyt!

And don't worry, I deal with haters all day every day Blink Keep commenting and sharing your thoughts if you want to show support for the idea guys, it's the only way to get the attention of the Dev's!

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Callic Veratar
#13 - 2013-02-04 16:17:28 UTC
Reasonable idea from the point of view of keeping your character sheet clean. However, you mention hackers, and based on the player interactions in this game, I would be highly suspect of introducing such a feature.

It changes methods of player social interaction from in character/player to a customer level thing. For example, if I could find the account information for Supercap pilots, I could delete the skills prior to a major engagement. Even if it was determined that hacking was the result of the deletion, the battle would already be over, with the only option to fix it being a full server roll back.

Do not underestimate the lengths players will go to be dicks to each other.
Hammer Borne
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-02-04 16:27:38 UTC
As long as it does not allow someone to remove a prerequisite for more advanced skills they already have, I see no issue. New players could potentially end up screwing themselves over, which would lead to tech support calls I suppose...
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-02-04 17:44:28 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Reasonable idea from the point of view of keeping your character sheet clean. However, you mention hackers, and based on the player interactions in this game, I would be highly suspect of introducing such a feature.

It changes methods of player social interaction from in character/player to a customer level thing. For example, if I could find the account information for Supercap pilots, I could delete the skills prior to a major engagement. Even if it was determined that hacking was the result of the deletion, the battle would already be over, with the only option to fix it being a full server roll back.

Do not underestimate the lengths players will go to be dicks to each other.


This is indeed a major concern and why a second password would need to be implemented . Making it available to use once a year would also help and reduce the chances of such an event from happening frequently.

The chance of someone getting your login details is very slim, let alone them getting access to a second password. They have no chance if the feature has been used already once this year.

Perhaps the stasis period should be longer than a day, perhaps a week?

Scenario: Hacker some how manages to get hold of two passwords, he goes to delete a skill. Skill enters stasis for a week, at the end of the week a confirmation will be required. During that time the DEV's would already have handled it.

Besides having a hacked account and getting your character biomassed is just the same level of danger if not worse right? The hacker would more likely go for that option than wait 7 days.

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-02-04 17:46:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Khaine
Hammer Borne wrote:
As long as it does not allow someone to remove a prerequisite for more advanced skills they already have, I see no issue. New players could potentially end up screwing themselves over, which would lead to tech support calls I suppose...


Sasha Khaine wrote:

  • You can't delete skills that are prerequisites to other skills. E.g You can't delete spaceship command without first deleting advanced spaceship command.

    • The severity of the action will be announced multiple times before the final removal of the skill books. Other than that, that's EVE I guess. You where given multiple warnings and you chose to ignore them.

    [center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #17 - 2013-02-04 18:33:51 UTC

    2 Thoughts:

    1.) The Supercap losing their skill thing is not relevant... People might "delete" the skill on a hacked account... and they are far more likely to run off with the supercap, or self destruct it rather than delete the skill. Furthermore, since we are already doing a skill delete check, just make it so you have to be in a capsule to delete a skill....

    2.) This idea seems well thought out, with decent "abuse" prevention mechanics.... It has been posted before (in Assembly Hall) in a very similar fashion... My biggest concern is the amount of "dev time" required to implement this feature. The feature really adds little to the game, might increase the number of petitions (I accidently deleted my Skill, please give it back), and probably will result in more destructive "hacks". If this is a quickly-implemented feature to make you happy, I'm ok with it... but it probably isn't... and I'd personally prefer the Dev's spend their time working on other features...
    Mikhael Taron
    Four Winds Industry
    #18 - 2013-02-04 19:41:52 UTC
    Sasha Khaine wrote:

    You clearly didn't read the effects that would stop such an act from happening. Also they can demand all they like but they knew it was permanent, if they felt like it could have been buffed in the future they would have kept the skills. You are just nit picking now and really it's rather pathetic.


    Danika Princip is a known dickhead with delusions of Grand Troll Master. That he responded as he did means your idea has merit.

    You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
    Bienator II
    madmen of the skies
    #19 - 2013-02-04 19:45:49 UTC
    well yes. why not.

    But in all seriousness. Why would you ever do that? What is the problem with mining 2 on your combat char. Why would it sell less or hurt you in any way? Eve is one of the few games where you can't skill anything wrong, its not like mining 2 would block the titan skillbook. Even as hardcore roleplay person you can probably figure out a reason why john j. spaceship rambo trained mining in his youth.

    how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
    Danika Princip
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #20 - 2013-02-04 19:50:00 UTC
    Mikhael Taron wrote:
    Sasha Khaine wrote:

    You clearly didn't read the effects that would stop such an act from happening. Also they can demand all they like but they knew it was permanent, if they felt like it could have been buffed in the future they would have kept the skills. You are just nit picking now and really it's rather pathetic.


    Danika Princip is a known dickhead with delusions of Grand Troll Master. That he responded as he did means your idea has merit.


    Post with your main so I can stick a bounty on you. Roll

    And tell us again how every awful idea that has already been suggested 500 times must have merit just because people don't like it.
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