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Why we need auto probing and more
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Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-02-04 13:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Beckie DeLey
Probing/Exploration is about the only thing in this game that DOESN'T need any change... it's the only PVE content that doesn't make yu want to cut yourself.

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.
Ravnik
Infinate Horizon
#42 - 2013-02-04 13:44:21 UTC
Roi Hurutara wrote:
Firstly please forgive my spelling and grammar as English is my second language. I have been playing EVE for about one month.


Stopped right here....

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly..........
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-02-04 14:04:12 UTC
We should totally do this.

On a related note, I look forward to your post a few days after they make this change about how "the things you find aren't worth anything any more" etc.

When scanning was actually hard, the items you'd find would be worth a hell of a lot more.

Then they "simplified" it and it tanked.

If you know how to scan for people, you can get warp in in under a min.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-02-04 14:20:26 UTC
Op's bot software is having trouble working the probes and he wants CCP to make it bot friendly.
Portia Venetia
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-02-04 14:43:57 UTC
Some of the responses in here have been somewhat harsh. I tend to agree with the spirit of those posts that "auto-probing" would in fact be bad; making a "one-click" probing system would exclude the player's knowledge and reduce probing to a simple skills race.

On the other hand, I also feel that there's an upper limit to skill and/or effort in probing. Once a player has figured out how to fit their ship, what skills to train, and how to operate the probes in space, then the act of probing is reduced to rote. It can quickly slide into tedium and no genuine exercise of skill or effort is needed.

I have thought for some time that a simple way to eliminate some of the repetitiveness in probing would be to allow the player to save probe "formations." The player would arrange their probes, set their scan range, and then save that configuration (for example as "Probe formation Alpha"). Later, if the player recalls that formation, the probes will arrange themselves relative to the first launched probe at the saved scan range.

A system like this should satisfy those people that decry "ez-mode," since it is not "automatic;" the player must still figure out how to arrange and set their probes (at least once), and still requires the player to put the probes in the right place to find something. On the other hand, it would remove the tedious act of repeatedly click-dragging probes after setting scan ranges.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2013-02-04 14:46:36 UTC
Portia Venetia wrote:
Some of the responses in here have been somewhat harsh. I tend to agree with the spirit of those posts that "auto-probing" would in fact be bad; making a "one-click" probing system would exclude the player's knowledge and reduce probing to a simple skills race.

On the other hand, I also feel that there's an upper limit to skill and/or effort in probing. Once a player has figured out how to fit their ship, what skills to train, and how to operate the probes in space, then the act of probing is reduced to rote. It can quickly slide into tedium and no genuine exercise of skill or effort is needed.

I have thought for some time that a simple way to eliminate some of the repetitiveness in probing would be to allow the player to save probe "formations." The player would arrange their probes, set their scan range, and then save that configuration (for example as "Probe formation Alpha"). Later, if the player recalls that formation, the probes will arrange themselves relative to the first launched probe at the saved scan range.

A system like this should satisfy those people that decry "ez-mode," since it is not "automatic;" the player must still figure out how to arrange and set their probes (at least once), and still requires the player to put the probes in the right place to find something. On the other hand, it would remove the tedious act of repeatedly click-dragging probes after setting scan ranges.



OP Alt detected

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#47 - 2013-02-04 15:36:35 UTC
Portia Venetia wrote:

so feel that there's an upper limit to skill and/or effort in probing. Once a player has figured out how to fit their ship, what skills to train, and how to operate the probes in space, then the act of probing is reduced to rote. It can quickly slide into tedium and no genuine exercise of skill or effort is needed.


No, no and no.

Probing was already simplified a lot and made more user-friendly inrespect of the past. If seems tedious now you should have tried it before the revamp, when had to use different probe for each signatur type.

And is not boring at all (well, not in respect of the EVE standards).

I know, a lots of stuff in EVE is boring and repetitive for normal people, but - let's face it - we're a bunch of nerds and we like it in this way.

Btw how is probing a pain? I need 3-5 minutes to scan down a site, and I suck at probing and do not have skills fulled; I think a better explorer can do it in 1 minute. An experienced PvP prober can find a ship in - how much? - 20-30 seconds?
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#48 - 2013-02-04 15:47:17 UTC
tl;dr, was the reason "I'm lazy"?
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2013-02-04 15:48:57 UTC
Traiori
Going Critical
#50 - 2013-02-04 16:24:25 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:


Btw how is probing a pain? I need 3-5 minutes to scan down a site, and I suck at probing and do not have skills fulled; I think a better explorer can do it in 1 minute. An experienced PvP prober can find a ship in - how much? - 20-30 seconds?



A good explorer will identify every signature in the system within about 10 seconds. They can then scan it down in two or three further scans. I'd say 30-60 seconds per site for it to be scannable.

Quite a lot of exploring is knowing what sites not to bother with.
Orlacc
#51 - 2013-02-04 16:57:51 UTC
You have not been playing long enough to offer an in-depth ideas.


NO.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#52 - 2013-02-04 17:03:41 UTC
No

Biomass now.
Portia Venetia
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-02-04 17:16:42 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:

No, no and no.

Probing was already simplified a lot and made more user-friendly inrespect of the past. If seems tedious now you should have tried it before the revamp, when had to use different probe for each signatur type.

And is not boring at all (well, not in respect of the EVE standards).

I know, a lots of stuff in EVE is boring and repetitive for normal people, but - let's face it - we're a bunch of nerds and we like it in this way.

Btw how is probing a pain? I need 3-5 minutes to scan down a site, and I suck at probing and do not have skills fulled; I think a better explorer can do it in 1 minute. An experienced PvP prober can find a ship in - how much? - 20-30 seconds?


I make no defense of the previous system; I speak only to my perceived shortcomings of the current system. To say that because the existing system is improved over the former means that no further improvement is warranted is shortsighted, I think. We should always be open to new ideas and consider them on their merits.

I do not find probing/exploring boring at the moment; I like finding sites and anomalies and then seeing what's there. That is the entertaining part of exploration. Nor do I find using probes to "be a pain" overall; the only "pain" in the process is in the repeated re-arranging of the probes into the same shapes over and over again. I think this process is simply mindless after the first few iterations; once you've figured it out then the skill portion is ended and it's simple mouse manipulation. Perhaps, if we wanted to gauge skill in part by deftness of one's mouse movements, it is relevant. I personally don't feel that way.


Traiori wrote:

A good explorer will identify every signature in the system within about 10 seconds. They can then scan it down in two or three further scans. I'd say 30-60 seconds per site for it to be scannable.

Quite a lot of exploring is knowing what sites not to bother with.


This is much closer to how I feel skill should be measured and rewarded; knowing where to look and what to disregard. This draws much more upon a player's wisdom and is the better mechanism, in my opinion.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#54 - 2013-02-04 17:23:49 UTC
I have been playing EVE for about one month

Please make changes to make it easier as I dont want to work for my results.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#55 - 2013-02-04 19:24:46 UTC
I agree EVE needs to transform Exploration into another mindless, effortless, PVE activity so that everyone can do it without any thought, and then PVE will be universally boring.

There are mechanics for different types. If you want to make money automatically I recommend PI. Do not say "I want to do X concept but I want it to act like Y" a lot of people like X to act like X. We do not need more Y's.

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2013-02-04 19:25:22 UTC
Portia Venetia wrote:
Some of the responses in here have been somewhat harsh. I tend to agree with the spirit of those posts that "auto-probing" would in fact be bad; making a "one-click" probing system would exclude the player's knowledge and reduce probing to a simple skills race.

On the other hand, I also feel that there's an upper limit to skill and/or effort in probing. Once a player has figured out how to fit their ship, what skills to train, and how to operate the probes in space, then the act of probing is reduced to rote. It can quickly slide into tedium and no genuine exercise of skill or effort is needed.

I have thought for some time that a simple way to eliminate some of the repetitiveness in probing would be to allow the player to save probe "formations." The player would arrange their probes, set their scan range, and then save that configuration (for example as "Probe formation Alpha"). Later, if the player recalls that formation, the probes will arrange themselves relative to the first launched probe at the saved scan range.

A system like this should satisfy those people that decry "ez-mode," since it is not "automatic;" the player must still figure out how to arrange and set their probes (at least once), and still requires the player to put the probes in the right place to find something. On the other hand, it would remove the tedious act of repeatedly click-dragging probes after setting scan ranges.


I agree with the general premise of this reply but the naysayers definitely need to chill out. There was no reason to crucify the OP. His idea just needed to be refined with some alternative options and constructive criticism. New players / new members of this community should be encouraged to post, not be ridiculed and demeaned or told to GTFO / HTFU. I'm half tempted to go on a reporting spree.

Funny how all the naysayers seemed to forget that CCP just recently changed the scanning mechanic again. Specifically pertaining to Cosmic Anomalies, basically turning it into a one-click application. In the old probing mechanic and even after the new probing mechanic was introduced, players had to warp to each planet and do a system scan to hopefully find a Cosmic Anomaly. That was very time consuming and tedious, not to mention boring.

Then the scan range was increased but it still took time for the scan to run. Then CCP reduced the ship on-board scan time to match those with probe launchers fitted and also increased the range once again, this time to cover the entire system turning it into a quick one-click application. Just jump into system, hit scan, warp to site, etc.

Obviously CCP did this in order to be more user friendly as well as encourage players to take part in the new content.

I started doing exploration many years ago with the old probing mechanic. It required high skill level, was very tedious and time consuming. When CCP added worm space, they made the probing mechanic a lot more user friendly which was great. Not to mention they also lowered the skill requirements which basically made exploration no longer a specialized career, allowing everyone and their mother's to do exploration. Not so great.

However one thing remains constant, it's still monotonous.

I see no problem with making the current probing mechanic a little more user friendly. I've often wondered why CCP didn't include option to save various probe formations, probe range, etc to be recalled and activated whenever needed. It wouldn't be a one-click fest but it sure would help ease the tedious repetition / routine.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-02-04 19:45:05 UTC
Ravnik wrote:
Roi Hurutara wrote:
Firstly please forgive my spelling and grammar as English is my second language. I have been playing EVE for about one month.


Stopped right here....



Same here. And you get a like for saving me the trouble of going back to the first page to snag the quote.

Probing is fine. Once you get the skills and practice it goes way faster.

And the whole point of combat probing is to try and do it fast enough to not get your probes caught on dscan. It is fair to have the guy moving away from your probes. And good probers often catch them anyhow.

I nailed a miner a few days ago in a WH grav site. All I had was an unbonused stealth bomber with core probes. I was able to dscan him down to 2AU and 30% angle. Got the grav site sig in 2 scans. He never saw the probes.
Malkev
Tribal Liberation Force
#58 - 2013-02-04 20:33:02 UTC
Roi Hurutara wrote:
probing is extremely boring...i used spend hours probing for dozens of signals

Roi Hurutara wrote:
4 probes

lrn2prob
Kai Sheia
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-02-04 20:49:49 UTC
The auto-probing idea is just absurdly terrible.

But I 100000% support the idea of probe formations, particularly if it could be setup so the launcher would deploy the probes for the specified pattern automatically.

I mean US doing the scanning I can sorta get, story-wise. But having to go "launch a probe, ... Now another... Now another......" Ect is rather bizzare. It would totally make sense for it to be more along the lines of "hey bob, I feel like scanning, deploy probes.". "the usual captain?" "of course. Tell me when they are ready"

Even if we have to launch them manually, formations would be fantastic.

Also, what the hell would someone more than1 day in to probing be doing using only 4 probes?
Sovereign Solette
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-02-04 20:55:27 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
OP, you should had been here a few years ago. Probing took literarily hours! And then when you jumped in the site you had a big chance someone beat you to it. Ugh

RubyPorto wrote:
If you don't enjoy probing, Exploration isn't for you.


How exactly did it take hours? I would love to know!