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Selecting a trade hub for a rookie trader.
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Nitko Koraka
Flashover Freight
#1 - 2013-02-03 02:37:52 UTC
I'm currently skilling up specifically for station trading. I'm looking to establish a semi passive income to subsidize or fully fund my PvP habit. During the work week I'm realistically able to update my orders about four times a day and a few more times a day on weekends. I don't want to be glued to the monitor all day updating my entire order queue every five minutes. I've read a number of guides and understand the basic concepts of the market. I figured I had done enough research so I might as well dive in and give things a try.

I started in Jita with a small 60M investment. I bought a smattering of meta four modules and some faction ammo with the odd implant thrown in for good measure. Competition was fierce, as to be expected, but for the few minutes my orders were on top I was able to move some product and make some ISK. I consulted with a corpmate who is an experienced trader and manufacturer who suggested I try trading at a smaller hub like Hek. His idea was that it would easier for me to be more successful with limited order updates. I thought this sounded wise so I cashed out in Jita and moved to Hek.

Fast forward a couple of days and I have made virtually no ISK in Hek selling most of the same items with the same investment. It seems my orders get underbid almost as quickly but because of the slow market I am not able to move any product.

I may have answered my own question but should I go back to Jita or try one of the other hubs? Thanks for any helpful advice.
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-02-03 03:10:09 UTC
Nitko Koraka wrote:
I'm currently skilling up specifically for station trading. I'm looking to establish a semi passive income...


This is your problem.

Station trading is anything but passive. It's a contact sport.

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-02-03 03:37:05 UTC
Kane Alvo wrote:
Nitko Koraka wrote:
I'm currently skilling up specifically for station trading. I'm looking to establish a semi passive income...


This is your problem.

Station trading is anything but passive. It's a contact sport.


Hey, talk some more about topics of which you are clueless.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-02-03 03:45:11 UTC
It's because you're starting off with a ridiculously low amount of capital. Your updating schedule is fine, even for Jita, but casual station trading means putting up many highly-leveraged billions worth of orders.

Furthermore, you don't sound like someone who is trading for its own sake, but rather trading as a source of income to support other activities. Therefore, I highly recommend you drop trading for now, and put that money into a ship to run missions with. As you're building up a pool of capital, you can also get your standings up for the station you want to trade in by running your missions for that corp. It is also an opportunity to learn more about the market by focusing on experimenting.

I run a channel for rookie traders called Syndicate Rookie Trader, so drop by sometime and we'll help you get started off right. We also have a thread here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=184822&p=1

Good luck.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Cooyaw
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-02-03 03:54:30 UTC
I suggest investing in Combat Drones, it's something you can identify with being one and all.

get your alliance to pay for your damn ships, they have the money.

i can relate.

jerry would like to pledge 20 bil

and take a big ol dose of collatorol
Kane Alvo
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-02-03 04:00:06 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Hey, talk some more about topics of which you are clueless.


Hey, be an ass for the sole sake of being an ass. Roll

Caldari Militia  ☜★☞ Psychotic Monk for CSM8

Nitko Koraka
Flashover Freight
#7 - 2013-02-03 04:28:33 UTC
Thanks for the advice, Varius. I do have a ratting ship but am not able to use it at the moment because we are deployed. You are correct about mostly doing this for the sake of ISK but the market does interest me. I know I do have a stupid low amount of capital in right now but most of my assets are in ships. Cooyaw: my alliance does reimburse ships but not all hull types. I will be able to get most of my losses covered but I still have to pick up some slack.

I've moved my alt back to Jita and I've made more in thirty mintues than I did in 48 hours in Hek. We'll see how this continues.
joyous the
Slippery Penguin
#8 - 2013-02-03 07:36:28 UTC
Hek is crap other than a supplemental income site. And that's only if the other 4 caps are covered. The competition there is that of a 2nd ranked market(Amarr) rather than a 5th.
Lioso Cadelanne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-02-04 02:48:49 UTC
It may not be an issue of location but of what your trading. There's more to a good item for trading than a sell order that is higher than the buy order. You may know this already but I'll just cover my bases in case you don't.

Links:

- The Uni Wiki
- Evelopedia
- Here's something I wrote up, essentially the condensed wisdom of the two other links: Link

There is one issue of location that has occurred to me. Like Varius said , 60m isn't enough to trade effectively in Jita. The reason is that Jita tends to have larger volumes and smaller profit margins that the other trade hubs. With the amount of capital you're working with you're not going to see much in the way of returns. A lot of the items I've traded in Jita have about a 5% profit margin, which works for me since I'm dropping a couple billion in buy orders but 5% of 60 million ain't much. I would say one of the smaller trade hubs would be better to start with because of this fact. I had a lot of success trading modules in Amarr when I started out (Plus Amarr local is way better than Jita).

TL:DR Get more ISK for trading and stick with the non Jita trade hubs
Doctor Zoe
Spatial Enterprises
#10 - 2013-02-04 07:28:42 UTC
How about your trading skills?
Full-time inventor.
Doctor Zoe
Spatial Enterprises
#11 - 2013-02-04 07:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Zoe
Ud better stay in JITA or nearby not HEK or other market centrl .
market trading is very intesting and get ISK easy
It depends on your trading skills

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=201438&find=unread
There is one of my trader char want to sell.
maybe u will like it
Full-time inventor.
Ronix Aideron
Zymurgy Corp.
#12 - 2013-02-04 13:16:11 UTC
I started trading with less than a 100 Million isk. The issue is that you need to have good to decent trade skills and standings. I would run missions (distribution and security) to raise my standings while I added trade skills. Now I am able to support myself completely through trading and I have even branched out into other things (to improve my margins with trade).

It takes time to get your sea legs and Excel is your friend.

Start the day off slow and taper off from there.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ronix_Aideron
Mari Hata
Main Street Crafts and Goods
#13 - 2013-02-04 13:53:13 UTC
I started trading in Hek, too. It wasn't really worth my time and I moved to Rens : a few jumps and a world away. Smile

♫ ♪ ♪
flakeys
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-02-04 14:07:50 UTC
Ronix Aideron wrote:
I started trading with less than a 100 Million isk. The issue is that you need to have good to decent trade skills and standings. I would run missions (distribution and security) to raise my standings while I added trade skills. Now I am able to support myself completely through trading and I have even branched out into other things (to improve my margins with trade).

It takes time to get your sea legs and Excel is your friend.



Speaking for myself i have traded quite a bit in my eve time yet never had any chars with standings in the stations i trade in , so no standings is not a MUST it is something you might add later on if you feel like it.Skills however is a completely different thing as you'd want to go for tycoon.In my experience the more orders you got set out the less babysitting it takes.If one item ain't selling then the other one will and if one item is being outbid the other one still is the cheapest one.

Excell also something i never used but that one i would advice when you are starting out it will help you a lot.I just never felt like playing spreadsheets online but have used 3rd party programs from time to time just to give me an idea wich items sold out mostly if dealing with a huge chunk of orders.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Aricaan
Rum and Quafe
#15 - 2013-02-04 15:25:55 UTC
Research bro, research.

Asking what hubs to go to doesnt count as research....

Checking the market for what trades is research.
Aricaan
Rum and Quafe
#16 - 2013-02-04 15:31:22 UTC
Sorry for double post, but I was thinking maybe my last post was a little vague..

There is money in every system for a trader. The trick is to find what people want in those systems, and also coming to grips that the volume wont ever be as high as Jita. A lot of players assume that if you arnt trading a million gizmo's a day for .o1isk profit, you arnt doing it right.

When I lived in nil sec, I would import ships, ammo etc from high sec.

When I lived in a system loaded with ice belts, I would buy mining stuffs from trade hubs and sell it in the ice belts.

etc. This is what I mean by research.

Gotta know your market.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-02-04 15:42:11 UTC
Aricaan wrote:
This is what I mean by research.

Gotta know your market.


Can't repeat this enough. Theory, research, experimenting, etc are the actual work of trading.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Marsan
#18 - 2013-02-04 16:32:37 UTC
With such a small initial stake I recommend buy stuff in trade hubs and hauling it mission hubs, mining systems and low/null border systems. Then buying what ever they are selling cheaply and hauling it back. You can often charge a 20% premium for hauling ammo, drones or shuttles to a mission/mining/border system.


PS- I've been running PI in low sec, scanning down sites, and semi-afk mining (in .5) while watching TV or working for a few months as I don't have the time live in wspace right now. Every week or so I head back to the local trade hub to sell things off, and fly back with a load of mining and mining ganking ships, mining gear, drones, and the like. Despite the market hub being 5 jumps away I sell everything in under a week at a 20% markup.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Nitko Koraka
Flashover Freight
#19 - 2013-02-05 05:26:34 UTC
Wow, didn't notice that this thread had gotten a number of new replies. I'm up to 200M ISK in assets, wallet, and escrow from a (re)investment of 90M ISK. Been doing some actual research and experimentation. I am learning what is worthless and worthwhile to trade in. This is a lot more addicting than I anticipated. Thanks for the help, everybody.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-02-05 19:18:30 UTC
Nitko Koraka wrote:
Wow, didn't notice that this thread had gotten a number of new replies. I'm up to 200M ISK in assets, wallet, and escrow from a (re)investment of 90M ISK. Been doing some actual research and experimentation. I am learning what is worthless and worthwhile to trade in. This is a lot more addicting than I anticipated. Thanks for the help, everybody.


Keep playing around. Never put all of your eggs in one basket, don't be afraid to try something, and balance between holding onto stock for prices to go back up or liquidating now and just soaking the loss.
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