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Patriotism, The Government, The Individual

Author
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-02-02 02:58:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
There's this misconception that in order to be patriotic you must blindly believe what your government tells you to. A government's job is to represent and protect it's individuals, in exchange of tribute (simply called 'tax'). The common man or woman might find solace in placing full credence on the government, believing that their government is more aptly qualified to look after them in certain areas of their lives, so that they can live with less worries.

This is the mentality of ignorant fools.

The wise man or woman knows that in fact the government doesn't look after the individual, it only looks after itself. You can say that maintaining its existance and having stability (or the illusion thereof) is the government's utmost priority. Then the rabbit hole gets deeper.

A government is composed of a hiearchy of politicians separated with an invisible wall not by ideals or methods but self interest. The political agenda is what keeps the cogs and wheels of politics turning. The human race is governed by selfish and ephemeral desires.

A true patriot is not an obedient sheep.

He or she would not blindly trust their government. A long time ago a Gallente philosopher said 'Doubt is the first step to attain knowledge." Your government is not worthy of your unconditional trust. Your government is worthy of much trust as the complete stranger you meet in any street. The true patriot does not accept, the patriot fights the tidal wave before her.

Never settle for the status quo, strive for more and aim for the impossible just over the horizon. If you wish to be a tool then become a tool of change. A fight for a better tomorrow is a cause worth fighting for.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#2 - 2013-02-02 03:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
Personally I find that the sheep tend to be those who don't necessarily do what their government tells them to do, but believe so strongly in what their government does they are blinded to its own misgivings, corruption and faults. Obedience is a symptom of sheepishness, not exactly a requirement, but something that follows when one is blinded by the spec in their eye yet ever so clear of the plank in anothers.

To me, a patriot is someone who loves their nation or cause, but does not allow it to rule themselves. A patriot defends the idea in which they believe, against foreign and internal foes to maintain the purity of that ideal. Unfortunately, I see very few patriots. Overall though I would have to agree with your sentiment; one should always continue to strive to defend their beliefs and improve upon which they champion.

Unfortunately, I see too few patriots and too many radicals. Like any disease, radical thought spreads amongst the weak minded and before too long can infect the entire flock.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-02-02 03:28:36 UTC
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.

von Khan

Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-02-02 03:31:57 UTC
von Khan wrote:
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.


The Secular State wants to have word with you. He thinks this meeting is several thousands of years late.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#5 - 2013-02-02 03:33:06 UTC
von Khan wrote:
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.


Patriotism (spelled nationalism) is the virtue of the tyrant. It's amazing what some chest beating, saber rattling and flag waving can convince a populace to do when you take advantage of their emotions.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-02-02 05:18:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
Also to increment what I spoke earlier:

Dr. Goulard a respected political sciences and law teacher at Caille University said something about this. Nationalists would be quick to claim that this sentiment would be anti-federation.

He said that the rising anti-government movement has been on the rise for several decades. The two opposites, each represent different sides of the spectrum:

The Individual vs the government.

The individual represents the Gallente raison d'être and lies closer to the true spirit of the Federation.

While blind obedience to the government is something new and different and does not reflect original Gallente values.

The government is just an instrument and just like any other instrument it will be discarded in time after its use expires. A very long time ago we were not even a democracy, we were a monarchy. Obviously the change to democracy was the next obvious evolutionary step for our society and nobody can disagree with that. However what is stopping our society from creating a new form of government that we can identify ourselves more with? That we feel will be capable of being in charge?

Absolutely nothing. It will happen eventually and the cycle will begin anew.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-02-02 05:29:56 UTC
Long live The Mittani!
In Goonswarm we look after all our pilots. Our members are the most important resource we have and the alliance is there to make sure their needs are met.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2013-02-02 05:37:07 UTC
Obedience doesn't have to be blind. It can be part of an interest in the needs of the greater whole that transcend individual motivations.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Marcus Horalen
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-02-02 05:55:19 UTC
In my letter of resignation to the CEO of the State Protectorate some time ago I spoke of such a notion, in which I will always remain faithful to the State. That, whether it be in times of peace or war, should the State beckon, I would go without hesitation. But the misconstrued belief that, as Pieter Tuulinen so boldly states, "the needs of the greater whole [...] transcend individual motivations" is a poisonous one. No one man or woman can truly represent the State, dictating the needs of the greater whole. To do so would be tantamount to the very ideals that we Caldari hold dear, and so I say this:

The State is no one man or woman, but a conglomeration of individuals with one voice; a voice that a real Patriot would acknowledge and not the goals of a singular individual.
von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-02-02 06:58:43 UTC
Gallente took its evolutionary step a while ago.. its called The Caldari State.

von Khan

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2013-02-02 07:17:20 UTC
Marcus Horalen wrote:
In my letter of resignation to the CEO of the State Protectorate some time ago I spoke of such a notion, in which I will always remain faithful to the State. That, whether it be in times of peace or war, should the State beckon, I would go without hesitation. But the misconstrued belief that, as Pieter Tuulinen so boldly states, "the needs of the greater whole [...] transcend individual motivations" is a poisonous one. No one man or woman can truly represent the State, dictating the needs of the greater whole. To do so would be tantamount to the very ideals that we Caldari hold dear, and so I say this:

The State is no one man or woman, but a conglomeration of individuals with one voice; a voice that a real Patriot would acknowledge and not the goals of a singular individual.


I'm sorry that you felt that the needs of the State and your own were no longer a good fit, sir, but I said that the needs of the greater whole transcend the needs of the individual. I never said that the needs of a single individual transcend the needs of the whole and I'm not sure how you got my meaning so inverted.

Heiian is an excellent guide.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#12 - 2013-02-02 11:27:15 UTC
You've captured my sentiments well, Mekhana. The Federation is only one of what will be many incarnations of the Gallente and associated civilizations. Many outsiders mistake it to be "eternal", as if it was the Caldari State or Amarr Empire, but it's only been around for just over two centuries. It might not be around tomorrow or next year. Whatever replaces it, however, will hopefully be a superior model.

I would like to see members of other empires come to realize that governments are dominated by self-interest. Sure, you have the sincere politicians amongst them, but even they are working to satisfy their own ego, even through altruism. I have a painting of President Aidonis Elabon on one of the walls of my house, but even I realize that he was trying to force his own world view over the entire cluster.

The issue is, is that (at least publically) many Caldari capsuleers genuinely believe their leaders are 100% of the time working in their best interest. It's a naive, almost child-like, approach. The Caldari are still humans, and thus the leaders of the State are NOT exempt from human nature. You might channel this towards Executor Tibus Heth, but it applies to any political leader of any megacorporation. This whole idea of sacrificing for "the needs of the greater whole". Well, who dictates the needs of the greater whole? That's right, those in power. You really think they're always sincere, all the time?

The reason I continue my nominal support of the Federation is that the governments of this union are fully aware of the populations' distrust against them. We know our governments are corrupt, or otherwise periodically suffer from it. However, because of this awareness, the Federation's governments take a light touch on the individual's lives. There might be spurts of tyranny, but we have mechanisms against that, either election or revolution.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-02-02 12:29:53 UTC
The problem of this whole point is that it relies on individualistic societies, such as the Gallente, where the individual weighs more than the commonality. But there are societies where this is not the case, comunalist society where the main thing is the common grounds, not individual people's beliefs. The Empire is one such society, as can probably be considered the Republic as well.

In comunalist societies, the individualist perception of doubting everything else and everyone, and advancing the private needs before those of the common is the gravest of mistakes. In a comunalist society, it is your duty to fulfill your part of the machine like everyone else does, so the machine keeps working. You can strive to modify that machine from within, while doing your part, but always subject to the will of the social system. That is our way.

In the Empire, you can't really talk about patriotism: there is no choice, there only is duty. And that's how it should be.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2013-02-02 14:22:55 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
The problem of this whole point is that it relies on individualistic societies, such as the Gallente, where the individual weighs more than the commonality. But there are societies where this is not the case, comunalist society where the main thing is the common grounds, not individual people's beliefs. The Empire is one such society, as can probably be considered the Republic as well.

In comunalist societies, the individualist perception of doubting everything else and everyone, and advancing the private needs before those of the common is the gravest of mistakes. In a comunalist society, it is your duty to fulfill your part of the machine like everyone else does, so the machine keeps working. You can strive to modify that machine from within, while doing your part, but always subject to the will of the social system. That is our way.

In the Empire, you can't really talk about patriotism: there is no choice, there only is duty. And that's how it should be.


You should maybe send the memo to the bickering Amarrian nobility, to the Tribes, and to all of the Caldari megas, then.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#15 - 2013-02-02 15:56:20 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
You've captured my sentiments well, Mekhana. The Federation is only one of what will be many incarnations of the Gallente and associated civilizations. Many outsiders mistake it to be "eternal", as if it was the Caldari State or Amarr Empire, but it's only been around for just over two centuries. It might not be around tomorrow or next year. Whatever replaces it, however, will hopefully be a superior model.


Mr. Inhonores, please point to the man who climed the Caldari State was 'eternal'. I'd say my people know just as well as any that their way of life is not 'eternal' and we've been under just as much threat of extinction as any other racial culture in the cluster.

Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:

I would like to see members of other empires come to realize that governments are dominated by self-interest. Sure, you have the sincere politicians amongst them, but even they are working to satisfy their own ego, even through altruism. I have a painting of President Aidonis Elabon on one of the walls of my house, but even I realize that he was trying to force his own world view over the entire cluster.


Do stop planetside on a few Caldari factory worlds and see if the average Caldari citizen doesn't understand that the goverment (corporation) they serve under isn't after its own self-interest. We had a revolution based on the fact. A few loyalist capsuleers does NOT make up the majority opinion of the Caldari State, and thus far all I've seen is squabbles between loyalists in each faction, not genuine citizens who just want to get on with their lives.

Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:

The issue is, is that (at least publically) many Caldari capsuleers genuinely believe their leaders are 100% of the time working in their best interest. It's a naive, almost child-like, approach. The Caldari are still humans, and thus the leaders of the State are NOT exempt from human nature. You might channel this towards Executor Tibus Heth, but it applies to any political leader of any megacorporation. This whole idea of sacrificing for "the needs of the greater whole". Well, who dictates the needs of the greater whole? That's right, those in power. You really think they're always sincere, all the time?


One should be most aware of their own sides faults as well. I've seen thread after thread of Gallente out right stick their nose up at other cultures and beliefs because its 'barbaric' in their eyes, yet I've not seen a single post of criticism from any capsuleer here as of yet in which they have criticized their own goverment; Instead, all I see is the making of excuses for it in lieu of threat from the other. There is a massive gap in understanding of the Caldari State in the Federation and vice versa because its easier to demonize your opponent and consolidate your position when you believe yourself on the high ground.

Perhapse I can dig up one of my old lectures from my tenure at the School of Applied Knowledge on Caldari Government and practice..

Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:

The reason I continue my nominal support of the Federation is that the governments of this union are fully aware of the populations' distrust against them. We know our governments are corrupt, or otherwise periodically suffer from it. However, because of this awareness, the Federation's governments take a light touch on the individual's lives. There might be spurts of tyranny, but we have mechanisms against that, either election or revolution.


There is not a single nation in New Eden that has the full unyielding support of its people. The Amarr Empire is torn between traditionalists and progressive Holders, the Caldari State is rife with strife involving three major power blocks and the Protectorate with the under tones wealth inequality and class warfare, the Minmatar Republic is at war with itself between all sects of society and the Gallente Federation pretty much has it all. Revolution and change of goverment doesn't require the democratic method the Federation chooses to employ, we've seen that.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-02-02 16:41:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
Mr. Louvaki,

Your ability to take statements personally is something that never surprises me. Mr. Inhonores was only making a figurative comparison from certain people that frequent IGS and did not make criticism at Caldari society at whole. You would be a more likeable person if you didn't always have to play defender as if this was a ball game. There's nothing to win or lose here. People that think they can win arguments over gal net have already lost in a way.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#17 - 2013-02-02 17:26:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
Mekhana wrote:
Mr. Louvaki,

Your ability to take statements personally is something that never surprises me. Mr. Inhonores was only making a figurative comparison from certain people that frequent IGS and did not make criticism at Caldari society at whole. You would be a more likeable person if you didn't always have to play defender as if this was a ball game. There's nothing to win or lose here. People that think they can win arguments over gal net have already lost in a way.


Mrs. Mekhana,

We've not known each other long enough for you to be surprised at anything, you must have misunderstood my response.

I'm not taking anything personally. Should I refrain from attempting to clear up common misconceptions of my people and our ideology in the future in favor of seeming more 'likable'? Likability is irrelevant in any case, if someone dislikes me without even attempting to know me based on a comment on a public forum then so be it.

In any case my response was not issued in ill nature, I was simply engaging in conversation. If Mr. Inhonores has taken offense to anything I said, then I humbly apologize.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2013-02-02 18:21:08 UTC
To be fair I have benefit very greatly by the Caldari system, so it makes sense that I would feel the strongest pull to give back to it. It's true that not everyone recieves as much consideration and resources as me and so it's to be expected that they consider their debt to be the lesser.

But I do not advocate blind loyalty to anything or anyone. I'm simply lucky that I serve a State that has championed my needs and interests so much. My loyalty has been influenced by the gratitude that I feel.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-02-02 19:00:41 UTC
Mekhana,

Let's all remind your ship crew to be True Patriots and not "obedient sheep" the next time you are in dire need for additional capacitor or reloading your weapons, or maintaining your ship drives.

Perhaps they can question your motives and fight the rising tide at just the right moment during a battle?



Sabik now, Sabik forever

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-02-02 19:17:29 UTC
I'd of course never suggest that your crews should put implicit, blind trust in you as their leader, and your unique ability and judgement... your knowledge of tactics and combat, in order to see them through safely and get them back home to their families.

It'a almost as if you are special, and have unique qualifications, and are perhaps the right person to watch over them and for their mutual gain.

Almost as if each of them need to do their parts, without question, to the best of their abilities, to help you all succeed.


Or you know, you could all take a vote on which targets to shoot next.

We love it when you do that.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

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