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What's all this Gameplay A Vs Gameplay B crap

Author
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#41 - 2013-02-01 17:20:17 UTC


Kim Dested wrote:
stuff


The name of your post should be "how not to be an EVE player"

Quote:

2) Providing enough people with the feeling that they're the hero. I'm no psychologist, but I imagine that few people like to engage in an activity where they feel like they are the victim, or can be at any moment. That's just masochism. We play games to feel like winners, to feel like we matter, and to build up to better things, bigger things, and to be able to do more with them. Instead, we get an environment where the losses can be (and usually are) permanent, massive, senseless, and inescapable (ganked ships by bored players, getting podded and PERMANENTLY losing SP's that you can't easily replace). Too many things here are designed to grind you down, not lift you up.


Most MMOs and video games make you the Hero. EVE lore superficially does the same thing.

Real EVE makes you a voice in an ocean of voices. It tells you you are no more special than how creative, crafty, manipulative, EVIL and ruthless you can be.

This is why I hate most video games and love EVE. I don't need a game to soothe me, stroke my hair, tell me I'm special while we walk along the beach in the moon light. I need a CHALLENGE and a place to make my mark, a game to knock me down so I can gain Glory in the act of getting back on my feet.

Which is why I should be an EVE player, and some other people should reevaluate their gameplay decisions because EVe is not and should not be for everyone.

Quote:

3) Banding people together. For an MMO, where the whole point is to play with other people, mechanics of betrayal, theft, bullying, and griefing are not just allowed, they are actually promoted. I've come to a conclusion that I can't trust anybody in the game with a single ISK. Ever. So the mechanisms that allow corps, alliances, etc, are just a moot point to me. I really may as well be playing X3 when it comes out for all the interacting with others I do.


And yet 10s of thousands of us find a way to be in player corps and alliances, because we have the personalities and skill to do it.

Ever think that it might be YOU who is the problem, not the social scene of a video game?

Quote:

4) Guiding its users' behavior. Really, there are too many a-holes in this game who toss around words like carebears and tears. Who write litanies with no purpose other than to make a person feel worse. In game chat, in these forums, whatever. Who enjoy other people's distress. How many new users do you think you're going to get when the only responses to new folks losing their favorite new toy are "suck it up," "you've learned your lesson," and "are those tears? are you crying?". Yeah, that's inviting.


Hello, My name I Jenn. Allow me to introduce you to a little group we call CC-freaking-P, a group of mostly Icelandic Psychopaths who created a game that is purely about "tear extracting" . you can find video after video after video of CCP employees talking about tears..Extracting tears is the core principle of the game.

And i bet you didn't do the tiniest bit of research into the nature of the game before deciding to play it, did you? You're not alone, many people didn't, and most of them never leave high sec if they keep playing at all. Some people see only what they want to, the rest of us see the actual truth.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#42 - 2013-02-01 17:23:11 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

So what about what I'm writing is hard to understand?

I can only guess that you are so far from what I am trying to ask it is going over your head or you're just here for an argument.

In any case let's just leave it be :)


So you are unable to answer a simple question. I asked you what about my writing you can't understand, but instead of answering (so i can then clarify for you that which YOU are failing to understand), you claim something is "going over my head".

Typical of your type. Again, if there is something about the plain English I've typed that you don't get, feel free to ask. Good Day Sir!.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#43 - 2013-02-01 17:26:51 UTC
Kalle Demos wrote:
Nullsec are not against highsec, if anything Nullsec wants to become highsec by making 0.0 risk free and NAP'ing everything that undocks directly or through neutral with NIP benefits


Seems to me that ships get popped quite often in that "risk free" environment of nullsec. Much more than in any other location in EVE, in fact. I know I certainly go through a lot more ships than I did. The NAPs exist because absolutely everyone is fed up of grinding SOV, it's a stupid mechanic, it takes too long, and timers are always at the most inconvenient times, not because we don't want to fight.

The big blue donut exists because alliances want passive rental income, and they won't get it if their renters are getting blapped every week. However thanks to jump bridges and titan bridges, a fight is never more than 10 minutes away.
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-02-01 17:32:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

So what about what I'm writing is hard to understand?

I can only guess that you are so far from what I am trying to ask it is going over your head or you're just here for an argument.

In any case let's just leave it be :)


So you are unable to answer a simple question. I asked you what about my writing you can't understand, but instead of answering (so i can then clarify for you that which YOU are failing to understand), you claim something is "going over my head".

Typical of your type. Again, if there is something about the plain English I've typed that you don't get, feel free to ask. Good Day Sir!.


picardfacepalm.jpg

Oh dear =/
Kim Dested
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-02-01 17:48:48 UTC
Jenn aSide -

so let me recap your answers:

1) You're not an EVE player. Leave.
2) I'm obviously an EVE player and some people (hint: you) aren't. Leave the game.
3) You are the problem. You are describing a reaction different than the one you're supposed to have? Leave.
4) You obviously don't know what EVE is, and it's not for you. Leave already.

If I was trying to write a mock response to show an example of people's hostility, I couldn't have done a better job. Wow.
Never mind trying to discuss changes to the game rationally. When even the motivations for people's gameplay styles cannot be expressed without hostility and mockery, there's no hope for anything beyond that.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-02-01 17:54:28 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players.

Don't people realise that EVE is meant to accommodate different playstyles?

This is pre-school all over again T_T



well yeah but, y'know, arguing for sake of arguing, because of discussion for sake of discussion.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

stoicfaux
#47 - 2013-02-01 18:14:22 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players.

Don't people realise that EVE is meant to accommodate different playstyles?

Pick one or more:
a) Eve is a zero sum game problem. If you don't fight for your wants/desires/calls_for_buffs/nerfs, then CCP's limited resources will be dedicated to the Wrong Thing(tm) and you lose.

b) Eve is a PvP game. Any position with two[1] or more sides will, with almost certainty, involve players fighting each over over which position is better just on general principles.

c) Accommodating different plays styles requires empathy. Next time do your research before "investing" your time in an MMO.

Quote:
This is pre-school all over again T_T

Yes, but eventually everyone is forced out of pre-school. No so with Eve.


[1] TBH, even a position with just one side will still create debate due to the Nihilists.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#48 - 2013-02-01 21:04:33 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
LHA Tarawa wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Sure.

And I think most people understand that.

What many people don't seem to understand is that while EVE is meant to accommodate all playstyles, but not in isoltation. That means that "using the actions within the scope of the game mechanics to mess with guys who do x*" is a perfectly valid playstyle (this can also go recursive by messing with the people who mess with the people who do x, then Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo).

So, "mining without being bothered or interrupted" might be a goal (unlikely to be achieved, but v0v), but it cannot be a supported "playstyle," the way "mining" can be**.


* for all x within the scope of the game mechanics except x = "being a newbie"
**Actually, it can be. The SISI server rules prohibit non-consensual PvP of all forms.



It isn't those of us that want to mine without being F'd with that come to the boards demanding the game be changed to fit our playstyle. What I see are the people demanding the removal of NPC corps so that anyone can be wardec'ed at any time, the nerfing of high sec to force people out from under CONCORD protection, demanding the removal of local, demanding...., demanding... demanding...

I think the game has a great rule set right now, that allows people to be messed with, anywhere, anytime, but in most places that "messing with" is limited without consequences.




Tell me, which of these things happened in the last year:
1.) The EHP of Exhumers was increased, making it more difficult to mess with them,
2.) NPC Corps were abolished, or
3.) HS was nerfed in any way.

Tell me was the above thing that happened was:
A.) Spawned out of the blue from the mind of CCP, or
B.) Precipitated by a massive outpouring of whine on the forum.


Finally, do you understand the concept of a Zero-Sum game? If you simply increase the value of work in nullsec, you cause inflation (of ISK or materials) which decreases the value of the work people do in HS AND the stored value of everyone's prior work. If, on the other hand, you decrease the value of living in HS, you do not cause inflation, so you only decrease the value of the work people do in HS. In other words, would you rather see someone in HS making X ISK/hr and a Drake cost 2X or that same person making .5X ISK/hr and a Drake cost X?
And in the special case of industry, HS is literally perfect. It's free, risk free, high capacity, and convenient. There is literally no way to make Nullsec better than HS without nerfing HS industry unless you added a <1 mineral multiplier which would either break reprocessing forever or introduce an infinite mineral fountain.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#49 - 2013-02-01 21:48:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Kim Dested wrote:
Jenn aSide -

so let me recap your answers:

1) You're not an EVE player. Leave.
2) I'm obviously an EVE player and some people (hint: you) aren't. Leave the game.
3) You are the problem. You are describing a reaction different than the one you're supposed to have? Leave.
4) You obviously don't know what EVE is, and it's not for you. Leave already.

If I was trying to write a mock response to show an example of people's hostility, I couldn't have done a better job. Wow.
Never mind trying to discuss changes to the game rationally. When even the motivations for people's gameplay styles cannot be expressed without hostility and mockery, there's no hope for anything beyond that.


Show me where I told anyone to leave. i'm commenting on the displayed lack of wisdom evidenced by your (and others) choice to play a game that goes exactly against what you seem to like. Leaving or staying is a personal choice.

I wouldn't leave if I didn't like EVE (because my personality was not suited to this type of game), I'd have NEVER PLAYED (after an initial trial) in the 1st place. But rather than examine yourself and make good choices, you and your like simply decide something is wrong with the game and it's community.

EVE is fine, it's some of it's players that need nerfing.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#50 - 2013-02-01 21:52:37 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players.

Don't people realise that EVE is meant to accommodate different playstyles?

This is pre-school all over again T_T



Don't people realize that some playstyles are by nature adversarial? Can't I be against you and you be against me?!?!? It is a game after all! No, you wanna play checkers with the same color pieces...

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-02-01 23:55:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
EVE is fine, it's some of it's players that need nerfing.


EvE gives you the tools to nerf people on your own.

Don't like alts in NPC corps mining, you are free to gank them.

If you can't gank because you are poor, you are free to bump them.

Get to it! Chop! Chop!

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2013-02-02 00:32:25 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Sure.

And I think most people understand that.

What many people don't seem to understand is that while EVE is meant to accommodate all playstyles, but not in isoltation. That means that "using the actions within the scope of the game mechanics to mess with guys who do x*" is a perfectly valid playstyle (this can also go recursive by messing with the people who mess with the people who do x, then Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo).

So, "mining without being bothered or interrupted" might be a goal (unlikely to be achieved, but v0v), but it cannot be a supported "playstyle," the way "mining" can be**.


* for all x within the scope of the game mechanics except x = "being a newbie"
**Actually, it can be. The SISI server rules prohibit non-consensual PvP of all forms.


There needs to be more people who think like you playing this game.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-02-02 00:35:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Kim Dested wrote:
stuff


The name of your post should be "how not to be an EVE player"

Quote:

2) Providing enough people with the feeling that they're the hero. I'm no psychologist, but I imagine that few people like to engage in an activity where they feel like they are the victim, or can be at any moment. That's just masochism. We play games to feel like winners, to feel like we matter, and to build up to better things, bigger things, and to be able to do more with them. Instead, we get an environment where the losses can be (and usually are) permanent, massive, senseless, and inescapable (ganked ships by bored players, getting podded and PERMANENTLY losing SP's that you can't easily replace). Too many things here are designed to grind you down, not lift you up.


Most MMOs and video games make you the Hero. EVE lore superficially does the same thing.

Real EVE makes you a voice in an ocean of voices. It tells you you are no more special than how creative, crafty, manipulative, EVIL and ruthless you can be.

This is why I hate most video games and love EVE. I don't need a game to soothe me, stroke my hair, tell me I'm special while we walk along the beach in the moon light. I need a CHALLENGE and a place to make my mark, a game to knock me down so I can gain Glory in the act of getting back on my feet.

Which is why I should be an EVE player, and some other people should reevaluate their gameplay decisions because EVe is not and should not be for everyone.

Quote:

3) Banding people together. For an MMO, where the whole point is to play with other people, mechanics of betrayal, theft, bullying, and griefing are not just allowed, they are actually promoted. I've come to a conclusion that I can't trust anybody in the game with a single ISK. Ever. So the mechanisms that allow corps, alliances, etc, are just a moot point to me. I really may as well be playing X3 when it comes out for all the interacting with others I do.


And yet 10s of thousands of us find a way to be in player corps and alliances, because we have the personalities and skill to do it.

Ever think that it might be YOU who is the problem, not the social scene of a video game?

Quote:

4) Guiding its users' behavior. Really, there are too many a-holes in this game who toss around words like carebears and tears. Who write litanies with no purpose other than to make a person feel worse. In game chat, in these forums, whatever. Who enjoy other people's distress. How many new users do you think you're going to get when the only responses to new folks losing their favorite new toy are "suck it up," "you've learned your lesson," and "are those tears? are you crying?". Yeah, that's inviting.


Hello, My name I Jenn. Allow me to introduce you to a little group we call CC-freaking-P, a group of mostly Icelandic Psychopaths who created a game that is purely about "tear extracting" . you can find video after video after video of CCP employees talking about tears..Extracting tears is the core principle of the game.

And i bet you didn't do the tiniest bit of research into the nature of the game before deciding to play it, did you? You're not alone, many people didn't, and most of them never leave high sec if they keep playing at all. Some people see only what they want to, the rest of us see the actual truth.

Research before you play the game! I love what you said there. CCP should give you a free account. You earned it.
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