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THE SOLUTION to the Local Argument has been found!!
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Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#101 - 2013-02-03 19:02:03 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
people get ganked in nullsec all the time, so much so that we have more losses then the rest of EVE put together. Did you know highsec systems are more dangerous then certain kinds of wormholes?
I'll be sure to evaluate your "pvp in nullsec is consensual and whs isn't" theory though with all the credence it deserves


oh well thanks for telling me what I really meant!

I thought I meant there's no way of telling from those statistics.

I would imagine more people per percentage of kills are ganked in wormholes because primary interest is in farming them, or ganking farmers, not looking for a gf.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2013-02-03 19:11:20 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
people get ganked in nullsec all the time, so much so that we have more losses then the rest of EVE put together. Did you know highsec systems are more dangerous then certain kinds of wormholes?
I'll be sure to evaluate your "pvp in nullsec is consensual and whs isn't" theory though with all the credence it deserves



Most ship deaths in null ARE from people fleeting up to go pvp, NOT people getting Ganked. Thats why dead ratting carries make the rounds when i gets killed, Because everyone KNOWS he was doing something dumb to have gotten killed.




Go ahead, you nullBADs keep spouting off how everyone else in eve should have to work for everything they get, THIS ALSO APPLYS TO YOUR INTEL.

So as CCP Guard puts it "HTFU" and get CCP to make your tools and remove local, and stop sucking at the tit of local to keep you safe and help you.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#103 - 2013-02-03 19:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Vexen Lyre wrote:


I would imagine more people per percentage of kills are ganked in wormholes because primary interest is in farming them, or ganking farmers, not looking for a gf.

nullsec systems can't have their stargates collapsed whenever the inhabitants feel like a really heavy farming session, so actually it's the opposite. You should get out an about so you can replace your imaginings with knowledge and first-hand experience.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2013-02-03 19:22:31 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:
Most ship deaths in null ARE from people fleeting up to go pvp, NOT people getting Ganked. Thats why dead ratting carries make the rounds when i gets killed, Because everyone KNOWS he was doing something dumb to have gotten killed.
16 carriers died today alone.

Quote:
Go ahead, you nullBADs keep spouting off how everyone else in eve should have to work for everything they get, THIS ALSO APPLYS TO YOUR INTEL.

So as CCP Guard puts it "HTFU" and get CCP to make your tools and remove local, and stop sucking at the tit of local to keep you safe and help you.
Local certainly fails at keeping us safe considering, again, we have more ship losses then the rest of eve put together. Not that I value the opinion of someone hiding in an NPC corp's opinion on other people's 'safety level'.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#105 - 2013-02-03 19:38:11 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vexen Lyre wrote:


I would imagine more people per percentage of kills are ganked in wormholes because primary interest is in farming them, or ganking farmers, not looking for a gf.

nullsec systems can't have their stargates collapsed whenever the inhabitants feel like a really heavy farming session, so actually it's the opposite. You should get out an about so you can replace your imaginings with knowledge and first-hand experience.


good stuff.

of course despite not being a bitter veteren I know every wh has a static and you can only rely on 3rd party statistics to have your best guess as to whether there is or isn't something nasty cloaked up in there before scouting it.

versus - look at local, if not blue then dock.

this is what is meant by comfort zone. you can be sloppy and rely on a sole indicator. it's not about whether you're safer in a wormhole by being rigorous and taking calculated risks.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2013-02-03 19:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
Removing local is a solution looking for a problem.

Many people already have the problem. The problem is that they personally suck at finding and ganking ratters.

That stats and killboards say there is no problem. Ratters getting killed and fleet fights happen. Nullsec already has more kills than every other type of space put together.
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2013-02-03 20:02:03 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:
Most ship deaths in null ARE from people fleeting up to go pvp, NOT people getting Ganked. Thats why dead ratting carries make the rounds when i gets killed, Because everyone KNOWS he was doing something dumb to have gotten killed.
16 carriers died today alone.

Quote:
Go ahead, you nullBADs keep spouting off how everyone else in eve should have to work for everything they get, THIS ALSO APPLYS TO YOUR INTEL.

So as CCP Guard puts it "HTFU" and get CCP to make your tools and remove local, and stop sucking at the tit of local to keep you safe and help you.
Local certainly fails at keeping us safe considering, again, we have more ship losses then the rest of eve put together. Not that I value the opinion of someone hiding in an NPC corp's opinion on other people's 'safety level'.



yep 16 IN THE HOLE OF NULL AND LOW SEC, and you STILL THINK that your total death pool is so large because of ALL THE RATTER DEATHS, your dumb if you think that.

nulls death count is so high BECAUSE OF FLEET FIGHTS.





everyone else in eve has have work for everything they get, THIS ALSO APPLY'S TO YOUR INTEL.



Hell i'm not saying you cant have your intel, but locals fool proof it works 100% of the time, if your simply have it open and observe it somewhat, its like ECM there's NOplayer skill counter to it, you ether rely on the other guys stupidity, or AFK cloak all the time.

you like falcon, well local is the falcon of the intel world.



Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-02-03 20:05:47 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:
Go ahead, you nullBADs keep spouting off how everyone else in eve should have to work for everything they get, THIS ALSO APPLYS TO YOUR INTEL.


do you have to work for the instagibbing NPC protection you get when you're afk mining in your mackinaw in hisec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2013-02-03 20:13:35 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:

everyone else in eve has have work for everything they get, THIS ALSO APPLY'S TO YOUR INTEL.




No they don't.

The rest of Eve isn't paying sov bills. They aren't manufacturing and dropping their own outposts.

The closest anyone else comes to what we deal with are FW for fighting and donating LP, maybe people buying starbase charters for a highsec POS if you really want to stretch it.


Come back when they pay a minimum 180mil isk a month. Until then, it seems we are the only ones actually paying for local.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#110 - 2013-02-03 20:17:06 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
maybe people buying starbase charters for a highsec POS if you really want to stretch it.


yeah that 1.8m/month extra they have to pay over a lowsec/0.0 POS is staggering

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#111 - 2013-02-03 20:20:35 UTC
Complaining about SOV costs in the north is silly.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#112 - 2013-02-03 20:23:38 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Complaining about SOV costs in the north is silly.

But it's cutting a huge gap into their moongoo profits!
How can they even live from that?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2013-02-03 20:31:00 UTC
Andski wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
maybe people buying starbase charters for a highsec POS if you really want to stretch it.


yeah that 1.8m/month extra they have to pay over a lowsec/0.0 POS is staggering



Like I said, it is a stretch. But to be fair, they are paying something to the NPC's for the privilege of dropping a POS.


But for the general highsec dweller they get, for free;

local chat
2 types of NPC police
cyno jamming
docking rights in every station
multiple stations per system
faster respawning belts
infinitely available missions, many in the safety of deadspace pockets



Did I miss anything?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2013-02-03 20:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:

yep 16 IN THE HOLE OF NULL AND LOW SEC, and you STILL THINK that your total death pool is so large because of ALL THE RATTER DEATHS, your dumb if you think that.
Why? Because it doesn't match up with your claims that aren't based on first hand experience or facts, backed up by nothing?

Quote:
everyone else in eve has have work for everything they get, THIS ALSO APPLY'S TO YOUR INTEL.
how hard have you worked for your NPC corp wardec immunity again? Oh right I forgot your incredibly hypocrisy. Local intel requires someone actively scouting and updating the system.
Quote:
Hell i'm not saying you cant have your intel, but locals fool proof it works 100% of the time,
The NPC corp wardec immunity you hide behind is an example of something that works 100% of the time for zero cost or effort on your end. Local isn't.

Let's take the last 5 carrier losses by TEST last month, without any form of cherrypicking or bias, available for everyone to corroborate.
Died to pizzaco in fleet fight - not related to local
POS repper ganked outside a fleet by a handful of roaming tengus - local didn't save this guy
Ratting carrier ganked by BL - local intel didn't save this guy
Ratting carrier ganked by Stainwagon - local intel didn't save this guy
Wiped out in a fleet fighting Black Legion.

Seems that if local was a 100% failproof system as you claim, the majority of carrier kills in EVE would not be happening.
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2013-02-03 21:40:04 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:

everyone else in eve has have work for everything they get, THIS ALSO APPLY'S TO YOUR INTEL.




No they don't.

The rest of Eve isn't paying sov bills. They aren't manufacturing and dropping their own outposts.

The closest anyone else comes to what we deal with are FW for fighting and donating LP, maybe people buying starbase charters for a highsec POS if you really want to stretch it.


Come back when they pay a minimum 180mil isk a month. Until then, it seems we are the only ones actually paying for local.






o so YOU pay thos bills not the te moons or the legions of renters in other peoples space...
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-02-03 21:51:43 UTC
dubble post because i can.







you guys make me sad, NPC posting alts are FTW, so your barking up the tree on that one.


and NPC alt corps need to go as well, hell i would be fine if it FORCED you in to the milita at first if you did not have a corp by the end of the starter time frame.




all all your sperging about all the free stuff high sec get while you have to pa SOV, LULZ TEC.

i live, NOT SAYING.


so get over your self, let ccp do what they wanted to do 2 YEARS ago and remove local while adding you some tools to use.

and removing local could be the point to adding more small gang targets, AKA local becons and that kinda stuff.


so cry all you want point is, LOCAL needs to GO so we get a more interavtive system, you knwo besides a CHAT BOX, and a chat box thats never wrong.




in all my time doing pve in eve in SOV HELD NULL, i have never wonce lost ANY ship do to getting ganked.

now i lost ships in null BY JOINING FLEETS but you iggnore that part.


so tell me no PVE ship losses in 5 years of null living simply because i can watch local sound right to you?
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2013-02-03 22:08:24 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:

in all my time doing pve in eve in SOV HELD NULL, i have never wonce lost ANY ship do to getting ganked.



If you were the only person to ever live in nullsec, this might be relevant.

But you aren't, so it isn't.


Quote:

o so YOU pay thos bills not the te moons or the legions of renters in other peoples space...


I pay taxes. Those taxes go to pay sov bills among other things. So I do chip in to pay for sov.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2013-02-03 22:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
next 5 TEST carrier losses picked in purely linear order with no bias for the guy who hides behind a posting alt but accuses others of risk aversion

Battle of Akamai loss, fleet fight loss not related to local
ratting carrier ganked by Stainwagon - guess local didn't help this guy
ratting carrier ganked by Gang Bang Team - guess local didn't help this guy
TEST 'carrier-tackle' concept dying in lowsec, da fuq? - not local related
ratting carrier hotdropped and killed by solo nyx (haha) - guess local didn't help this guy

so that's 6 out of 10 losses that local was supposed to insure 'never happened' according to npc forum alts

Quote:
in all my time doing pve in eve in SOV HELD NULL, i have never wonce lost ANY ship do to getting ganked.
I believe that you left highsec about as much as I believed your 'every ship that dies in 0.0 was part of a fleet' claim - that is, not at all.
Name Lips
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2013-02-03 22:25:09 UTC
Remove local, fix d-scan, and add a ship module that can detect if you are being d-scanned and sound an alarm.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#120 - 2013-02-03 23:21:36 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:
Most ship deaths in null ARE from people fleeting up to go pvp, NOT people getting Ganked. Thats why dead ratting carries make the rounds when i gets killed, Because everyone KNOWS he was doing something dumb to have gotten killed.
16 carriers died today alone.

Quote:
Go ahead, you nullBADs keep spouting off how everyone else in eve should have to work for everything they get, THIS ALSO APPLYS TO YOUR INTEL.

So as CCP Guard puts it "HTFU" and get CCP to make your tools and remove local, and stop sucking at the tit of local to keep you safe and help you.
Local certainly fails at keeping us safe considering, again, we have more ship losses then the rest of eve put together. Not that I value the opinion of someone hiding in an NPC corp's opinion on other people's 'safety level'.



yep 16 IN THE HOLE OF NULL AND LOW SEC, and you STILL THINK that your total death pool is so large because of ALL THE RATTER DEATHS, your dumb if you think that.

nulls death count is so high BECAUSE OF FLEET FIGHTS.





everyone else in eve has have work for everything they get, THIS ALSO APPLY'S TO YOUR INTEL.



Hell i'm not saying you cant have your intel, but locals fool proof it works 100% of the time, if your simply have it open and observe it somewhat, its like ECM there's NOplayer skill counter to it, you ether rely on the other guys stupidity, or AFK cloak all the time.

you like falcon, well local is the falcon of the intel world.





How much work did you put in for those stations you use?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016