These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP > Not starting an argument about the carrier changes but...
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#41 - 2011-10-11 07:35:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
their purpose is determined by what they're supposed to be used for. Whether or not their abilities can be used for that purpose determines whether or not that design is working and if they need to be tweaked. SC did not fulfil their purpose (or, well… they did, and then some), and thus are getting their abilities adjusted to fit the design goal.


Like i said.. people bought/trained for something that was unbalanced, strictly for its unbalanced uses.

I don't see someone buying a supercarrier because its an awesome capital killer, mobile hub or damage-sponge logistics. I see (saw) them buying supercarriers because they were looking like gank machines, ISK grinders and IWIN buttons.




This is an apple. It is supposed to taste like an apple.

It tastes like strawberries.

You buy them because they taste like strawberries

God fixes them, so that they now taste like apples.



You complain that apples will no longer taste like strawberries, and will now taste like apples.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Signal11th
#42 - 2011-10-11 07:39:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
Anyone know the year of this whine?




Yep I think it was around 2001 strangely enough the same year that joke was actually funny.

All I can see is ratters moaning about the fact they are going to have to work a little bit harder for their Sanctum cash.
Train sentries train heavies....blah blah blah.

The amount of times I've seen carriers on the field without scap help I can count on my two hands.

It's seems people constantly complain about things and when CCP even just suggest a change they then complain about the fix.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-10-11 07:39:38 UTC
Firbolgs: 1500 orbit, 280 speed: 0.19 angular velocity, 0.1 tracking
Dragonfly: 5000m orbit, 225 speed: 0.045 angular velocity, 0.0625 tracking
Einherji: 1000m orbit, 300 speed: 0.3 angular velocity, 0.125 tracking
Templar: 4500 orbit, 250 speed: 0.055 angular velocity, 0.075 tracking.
Templars and Dragonfly are still good, against BS. They lose some 20-30% damage, but still. A painter on the BS helps greatly, and perhaps a omnidirectional tracking link on the carrier.
Sky's not falling (yet.)
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#44 - 2011-10-11 07:42:37 UTC
AureoLion wrote:
Firbolgs: 1500 orbit, 280 speed: 0.19 angular velocity, 0.1 tracking
Dragonfly: 5000m orbit, 225 speed: 0.045 angular velocity, 0.0625 tracking
Einherji: 1000m orbit, 300 speed: 0.3 angular velocity, 0.125 tracking
Templar: 4500 orbit, 250 speed: 0.055 angular velocity, 0.075 tracking.
Templars and Dragonfly are still good, against BS. They lose some 20-30% damage, but still. A painter on the BS helps greatly, and perhaps a omnidirectional tracking link on the carrier.
Sky's not falling (yet.)


Omnis don't affect fighters.

Just sayin...

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2011-10-11 07:45:27 UTC
Ohwell.
Experience failed, but math remains valid.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2011-10-11 07:45:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
AureoLion wrote:
Firbolgs: 1500 orbit, 280 speed: 0.19 angular velocity, 0.1 tracking
Dragonfly: 5000m orbit, 225 speed: 0.045 angular velocity, 0.0625 tracking
Einherji: 1000m orbit, 300 speed: 0.3 angular velocity, 0.125 tracking
Templar: 4500 orbit, 250 speed: 0.055 angular velocity, 0.075 tracking.
Translated into DPS percentages:

Firbolg: currently 72% DPS → 7.2% (18% with a TP).
Dragonfly: currently 98% DPS → 61% (77% with a TP).
Einherji: currently 58% DPS → 3.4% (9% with a TP).
Templar: currently 96% DPS → 59% (76% with a TP).


Hmm… I retract my previous stance: it works, just pick the right fighters for what you plan on doing.
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#47 - 2011-10-11 07:47:55 UTC
People have been complaining about Supercarriers since their current form existed only on Sisi. There was a big problem that many people spotted and pointed out repeatedly, but CCP went ahead anyway, and the OP supercarrer was unleashed upon Tranquility. If all of your enjoyment in the game comes from flying something that's clearly unbalanced then that's just too bad, I suppose.

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#48 - 2011-10-11 07:48:07 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kitty McKitty wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Morganta wrote:
why should you get reimbursed for skills you can still use?

I guess I should see if CCP can refund my alt's industry sp since I don't use em anymore

They are fundamentally changing the workings of carriers so they are no longer viable. They can't expect people to put that much time into a skill expecting one thing, then move the goal posts. The reimbursed skill points when learning skills got removed, so they should reimburse these now that carriers are being removed.


The removal of learning skills left an imbalance in the distribution of skillpoints invested across all players. It would be unreasonable to leave those sp in those skills but make them redundant. Reimbursement in this instance made sense.

Changes to Supers does not diminish your ability to field supers even if you do not like the changes imposed. Your fleets will have to adapt to the changes but it is not as if you will not be performing a similarly vital role in fleets after the changes, unless you are some babby that can't handle having your OP pieces of **** taken off your hands and replaced with something demanding a little more effort.

Of course it diminishes the ability! You've got fighters with sig radiuses the size of battleships, and absolutely no defence against smaller ships. They are in no way going to be worth the year of skill investment or the cash to buy them. I'd be surpirsed if anybody but the biggest alliances with caps on their ship replace will take them out now.

Skills in this take time, and time costs money. I'm now not going to be gettign the product I paid for. If you bought a sat nav for your car, and they changed it so it didnt give directions anymore you'd want a refund. All I want is a refund. To be honest, if they want to give me 12 plex instead of the skillpoints I'm happy with that too.


Holycrap you mean you will actually need a support fleet now to support your vessel ?! MADNESS I TELL YOU!
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#49 - 2011-10-11 07:49:42 UTC
Tippia wrote:
AureoLion wrote:
Firbolgs: 1500 orbit, 280 speed: 0.19 angular velocity, 0.1 tracking
Dragonfly: 5000m orbit, 225 speed: 0.045 angular velocity, 0.0625 tracking
Einherji: 1000m orbit, 300 speed: 0.3 angular velocity, 0.125 tracking
Templar: 4500 orbit, 250 speed: 0.055 angular velocity, 0.075 tracking.
Translated into DPS percentages:

Firbolg: currently 72% DPS → 7.2% (18% with a TP).
Dragonfly: currently 98% DPS → 61% (77% with a TP).
Einherji: currently 58% DPS → 3.4% (9% with a TP).
Templar: currently 96% DPS → 59% (76% with a TP).


Hmm… I retract my previous stance: it works, just pick the right fighters for what you plan on doing.



You know, i somewhat like those numbers... but only if its CCP intention of having fighters only affect capitals.

That means that fighters will be the normal carrier way of dealing with other capitals.


I am perfectly fine with that.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-10-11 07:55:11 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
They are fundamentally changing the workings of carriers so they are no longer viable.


Confirming that nerfing fighters made capital logistic ships no longer able to perform their roles.
Signal11th
#51 - 2011-10-11 07:57:06 UTC
Shadowsword wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
They are fundamentally changing the workings of carriers so they are no longer viable at running Sanctums.


Confirming that nerfing fighters made capital logistic ships no longer able to perform their roles.



Fixed

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2011-10-11 08:01:05 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
You know, i somewhat like those numbers... but only if its CCP intention of having fighters only affect capitals.

That means that fighters will be the normal carrier way of dealing with other capitals.
Just to make it clear, those are the numbers against the “standard” 400m sigrad battleship, so pick the right ones and you'll do reasonably fine against them as well… well, except for Firbolgs and Einherji.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#53 - 2011-10-11 08:08:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
AureoLion wrote:
Firbolgs: 1500 orbit, 280 speed: 0.19 angular velocity, 0.1 tracking
Dragonfly: 5000m orbit, 225 speed: 0.045 angular velocity, 0.0625 tracking
Einherji: 1000m orbit, 300 speed: 0.3 angular velocity, 0.125 tracking
Templar: 4500 orbit, 250 speed: 0.055 angular velocity, 0.075 tracking.
Translated into DPS percentages:

Firbolg: currently 72% DPS → 7.2% (18% with a TP).
Dragonfly: currently 98% DPS → 61% (77% with a TP).
Einherji: currently 58% DPS → 3.4% (9% with a TP).
Templar: currently 96% DPS → 59% (76% with a TP).


Hmm… I retract my previous stance: it works, just pick the right fighters for what you plan on doing.


Ditto. Thanks for the information, Aureo. Those percentages don't look too bad to me.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Bloody Wench
#54 - 2011-10-11 08:11:13 UTC
I'm 1 Day 21 Hours from Fighters 5, do you see me bitching that the last 47 days are for nothing?

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#55 - 2011-10-11 08:15:36 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:
I'm 1 Day 21 Hours from Fighters 5, do you see me bitching that the last 47 days are for nothing?

Not yet but I'll be watching. WE WILL ALL BE WATCHING. FOREVER

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-10-11 08:16:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Just to make it clear, those are the numbers against the “standard” 400m sigrad battleship, so pick the right ones and you'll do reasonably fine against them as well… well, except for Firbolgs and Einherji.


Since nowadays BS fleets seem mostly made of Abaddons and Maelstroms, we might as well use a 500m sigrad as reference.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#57 - 2011-10-11 08:40:17 UTC
At any rate.. looks like people will have to use the "thing" God has given them the way it was meant to be used, and work a little harder, instead of just wanking on it for 2 minutes with one hand and getting instant gratification.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#58 - 2011-10-11 08:40:50 UTC
Somehow that analogy made me depressed.... as an EVE internet-spaceship captain...

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#59 - 2011-10-11 09:07:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Lucas Kell wrote:
Along with the changes, will there be a skill reset for Fighter / Carrier skills. Not being funny, but you are drastically changing the dynamic of carriers, and as such should offer the ability to reimburse those skills, since they don't come overnight. Since sub caps are going to be at the forefront of combat, and you are making carriers no longer economically viable (in both cash and skill time investment) it seems you should offer the ability to restat the now wasted skill points in other areas.

Thanks.


Translation: I payed rl cash for in-game content (against the EULA) and now have to pay again for the next FOTM. Plz give me my money back.

Bolded the relevant part.

Hoped for response from CCP: You're a bad bad man. Here's your permaban.

Funny yet unlikely response from CCP: Sorry, but as your business transaction was not with us but an illegal isk/item seller, we cannot credit your character or account. However, we will happily grant you a permaban for your RMT activities.

Likely Response from CCP: ...

Ninja edit: LOLOL, nice combat history m8. You and your self-immolating alt Argus Kell. I would seriously advise Solar to dump your sorry ass before you show up on someone's killboard in that shiny carrier.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#60 - 2011-10-11 10:51:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Soldarius wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Along with the changes, will there be a skill reset for Fighter / Carrier skills. Not being funny, but you are drastically changing the dynamic of carriers, and as such should offer the ability to reimburse those skills, since they don't come overnight. Since sub caps are going to be at the forefront of combat, and you are making carriers no longer economically viable (in both cash and skill time investment) it seems you should offer the ability to restat the now wasted skill points in other areas.

Thanks.


Translation: I payed rl cash for in-game content (against the EULA) and now have to pay again for the next FOTM. Plz give me my money back.

Bolded the relevant part.

Hoped for response from CCP: You're a bad bad man. Here's your permaban.

Funny yet unlikely response from CCP: Sorry, but as your business transaction was not with us but an illegal isk/item seller, we cannot credit your character or account. However, we will happily grant you a permaban for your RMT activities.

Likely Response from CCP: ...

Ninja edit: LOLOL, nice combat history m8. You and your self-immolating alt Argus Kell. I would seriously advise Solar to dump your sorry ass before you show up on someone's killboard in that shiny carrier.

No... Translation: I paid for a crap load of gametime and now it's all been wasted.
Argus is a good friend even if he is a bit trigger happy, so leave him alone.
I'm primarily a miner and industrialist at the moment with perfect manufacture skills, so my killboard won't say much. (By the way, I'm honored I've angered you enough that you've been looking me up)
I love the way you guys jump to conclusions so damn quick. Just cos you and half your mates cheat, doesnt mean everyone does.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.